Holocaust deniers

[derek]

I'll say this once:

This forum remains a philosophers forum. If any of you fail to act in a decent manner and make this discussion full of bias and hatred, I will close it down in a second, without a second thought.

Keep it on topic and keep it a decent discussion. Ad Homs and insults will not be tolerated.

 

[derek]

also:

I believe Cole retracted his statements made within that video?

 

[Teh Grimace]

Yes, that did indeed happen.

And, shortly afterwards, he, well, "un-retracted" them, in addition to making a statement that he had been "pressured" by "various groups" into going back on his findings, but that he no longer, and I think this actually was his word, "feared" them anymore.

 

[derek]

Fair enough...play nice.

Also, I did read some rather fierce Jewish extremist articles regarding him.

 

[petehis kahn]

Your posts, so far, make my list of the WORST, most INCOHERENT refutations of Cole's video I have yet recieved from anyone. Your picture of "TEH PROOFS!!1!" shows us nothing other than to reiterate the fact, which neither I nor anyone else is denying, that many Jews died in these camps, for whatever reason. Actually, I can't find anything within your statements that really qualifies as "refuting". Just a lot of childish close-minded nonsense, mostly you stating again and again that the video (which YOU are supposed to be refuting) does not refute YOUR beliefs, which, of course, IT DOES.

So keeping with your childish nature, I must ask...

Are you Australian or Retarded?

Keep it up, d00d, I've done this with people who know alot more about your side of the argument than you do.

I am studying to become a historian, I am well versed in history.

I find people like him so offensive that he doesn't deserve full responses.

I have provided two proofs, two actual examples of primary sources one sent to hitler (to argue against the claim that hitler didn't know what was happening, just in case he was the most foolish leader in history) and the other a listing of over 1 million deaths IN A YEAR.

Now if I was to kidnap you and lock you in a room until you died or I was to kidnap you put you in a room and poison you, would I not be charged with murder for both offenses.

Of course the germans did poison people, why else did they order tons of cyanide. Let us just say for a moment that it is true and that 6 million jews died of just being treated poorly... that is still criminal neglect and even still is murder.

I find people who argue against the mainstream of this to be almost laughable, they are constanly defeated, their evidences do not stand up.

We have on ourside a lot of proof, you guys have a lot of what ifs

what if the soviets planted infomation
what if the holes in the roof never existed
what if the people are lying

When the most famous of the movement admits that 4 million probably died, thats showing that you guys have nothing.

And I'm retarded, once again good work. I am not the one that believes in theories that have no proof.

Everyone of his points can easily be defeated and have been before, you think he offers anything new to the debate.

So please , offer up some points that have some merit.

 

[Teh Grimace]

I am studying to become a historian, I am well versed in history.

Like those "historians" Cole references? You know, the ones that were... wrong?

I find people like him so offensive that he doesn't deserve full responses.

And yet people like him are always more than ready to present a full response to people like you...

Now if I was to kidnap you and lock you in a room until you died or I was to kidnap you put you in a room and poison you, would I not be charged with murder for both offenses.

No, actually.

The first, at least in the ol' USA, would be classed as "negligent manslaughter", or perhaps, at worst, "intentional negligence resulting in death". Neither of which, in the context of war, can be considered a "war crime".

that is still criminal neglect and even still is murder.

Stick to history. Even with your shortcomings, you're still better at it than you are with law.

what if the soviets planted infomation
what if the holes in the roof never existed
what if the people are lying

That's exactly what I'm saying. What the fuck if. Cause, ya know, if those "what ifs" are turn out to be credible, then your entire case goes right the hell down the toilet.

I am not the one that believes in theories that have no proof.

umm...

 

[petehis kahn]

Oh come now, so I can murder people by simply starving them to death and not face murder charges.

Ok I will argue from David Irvings belief that 4 million jews died of mistreatment rather than 6 million died of being gassed and mistreated.

wow, you know what....that two million less and them only STARVING them to death makes them a lot better, good work nazis.

It is the choice between what is tastier a dog shit or a cat shit, because when it boils down to it.... they are both shit.

P.S can you leave Mr. Cole’s academic record please so I can see where he was educated and what qualification he has to be making such claims?

 

[Teh Grimace]

First off, I did not state that the starvation of the Jewish prisoners was intentionally facilitated by the Germans. My statement was in response to the situation you presented, involving yourself and your singular actions.

Yes, the Germans held them imprisoned without food, but food was not purposely and maliciously "withheld" from the prisoners. It simply was not available, or rather, the prisoners were too far down the list of whom they considered "worthwile recipients" to get much of anything. There were millions of starving Germans in line before the prisoners, and not enough to feed even them.

Can you imagine being a prison camp operator, having to message Mr. Hitler with a request for more precious rations to feed the starving "sub-humans"? You would most likely get no response at all. Not out of malice, but out of priority.

It's sort of like... being stranded in the wilderness, and your companions are your child and your dog. If there's only enough food for one of them, do you even take into consideration that you might be confronted by PETA some day for letting the dog die?

 

[petehis kahn]

I'd question why they were even placed into these camps to begin with.

Please would you be so kind as to explain the existance of the Hofle telegram and the many other records of Germans planning and carrying out the murder of the jews

and would you please list the guys academic record

Actually would you also be so kind as to list any primary sources that prove what these guys are saying or are we in fact just dealing with what they "think" I would love to see some primary sources on your claims that would be sweet

because you can't source your own brain on a research paper, I would really like to see some actual proof comparable with say the hofle telegram or the orders of cyanide from your end, thanks a bunch.

Unless you are going to say those proofs have been forged as well, perhaps all of history is forged, like I said.... laughable

and history is full of debate, did Jesus really exist is a prime one that is both controversial and going... it is also very interesting when you consider the interpolating and such forth, we could have a merry ole thread on it in this forum.... I can argue from both sides of the debate. So like I said if there was any real doubt on the holocaust it would be argued by proper historians, why isnt it

Yeah its hosting is biased but it is a real historical document and was used in the arrest of the guy who wrote it (who committed suicide) It was most easily read on that site, the ole Jager report

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/jager.html

is this another forged document, yeah germans surely killed no jews on purpose

So far I have presented three primary sources and what exactly have you presented in the way of evidence

 

[Teh Grimace]

I'll honestly come back and argue with you in a couple hours. I'm off to work.

In the meantime, enjoy this video about the attrocities commited by the Allies in Dresden.

Dresden: A Real Holocaust

 

[Procella]

Can you imagine being a prison camp operator, having to message Mr. Hitler with a request for more precious rations to feed the starving "sub-humans"? You would most likely get no response at all. Not out of malice, but out of priority.

And even one person considered as 'sub-human' and dead because of it is too much.

 

[derek]

Just to clarify, The videos posted by Teh Grimarse are hosted by this website:

http://www.solargeneral.com/library/jews.php

 

[Blaphbee]

Just to clarify, The videos posted by Teh Grimarse are hosted by this website:

http://www.solargeneral.com/library/jews.php

This is ridiculous - presenting the source of the argument does not change, alter or diminish the argument itself.

When you are one of the loudest ones crying here about ad hominem attacks, why would you attempt to discredit the source of the argument?

Stormfront is full of informants and fools. Regardless, what do you have to say about the arguments presented?

 

[derek]

Blaphee, you seem to have a large problem with myself. Following the posts in the moderation forum, you seem almost angry.

Presenting the source of the argument was aimed at giving the video some context. I said nothing more because I wished people to make up their own minds. It was not an ad hom because I claimed absolutley nothing, except pointing out the source.

I have almost no opinion. I'm stuck in the middle because I genuinley do not know who/what to believe at this precise moment.

 

[Blaphbee]

1 - Blaphee, you seem to have a large problem with myself. Following the posts in the moderation forum, you seem almost angry.

Don't put fucking words in my mouth. You've already replied in the moderation thread that you feel white natuionalism/supremacism/whatever you wish to define it as to be characterized as "hate speech" and have shown a pre-existing bias. "Outing" the source (such as it is) amounts to an ad hom: the source of the argument doesn't matter, the argument does.

 

[derek]

Don't put fucking words in my mouth. You've already replied in the moderation thread that you feel white natuionalism/supremacism/whatever you wish to define it as to be characterized as "hate speech" and have shown a pre-existing bias. "Outing" the source (such as it is) amounts to an ad hom: the source of the argument doesn't matter, the argument does.

I have problems with white supremacist theories, yes. I also was reasonably diplomatic in my approach to that topic when I spoke to Norsemaiden through PM. I can admit I was perhaps over-zealous in my first few weeks in moderation of this forum, but I still regard some tones/ways of expression as totally unsuitable for this forum.

AND, as I said before, I made no comment upon the source, I only wished to highlight where said video was hosted, that was all. I intended no inference regarding the argument and only wished to put some context upon the argument/video.

I infact totally enjoyed the video. I remain undecided us to how I feel about the topic as of yet though.

 

[GONE Ridin' Hood]

I'll honestly come back and argue with you in a couple hours. I'm off to work.

In the meantime, enjoy this video about the attrocities commited by the Allies in Dresden.

Dresden: A Real Holocaust

H O L Y . C R A P .


Thanx for the video, quite informative (didn't even know it had happened).

 

[Hamock]

Why do people always mention the bombing of Dresden as though it were relevant to the holocaust somehow?

 

[speed]

This is ridiculous - presenting the source of the argument does not change, alter or diminish the argument itself.

When you are one of the loudest ones crying here about ad hominem attacks, why would you attempt to discredit the source of the argument?

Stormfront is full of informants and fools. Regardless, what do you have to say about the arguments presented?

Blaphee, how can you attack him for posting the source of such information? Any intelligent person knows that the facts presented in any source, are subjective, and many times depedent upon the beliefs of the source.

I urge you and other likeminded individuals to make such claims in front of a holocaust survivor or a member of a victims family.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Questions to petehis kahn

"Of course the germans did poison people, why else did they order tons of cyanide" . They needed it to delouse. The German uniforms got full of lice too and they need cyanide to delouse them. Is that sufficient explanation? I think we will have to say we don't really know.

Can you say where the 6 million Jews came from? How many were in which countries? Are you suggesting Hitler imported them from abroad?

How many Jews emigrated before the holocaust began? Seems a sensible precaution.

How many Jews actually were serving the Nazi regime as soldiers, etc?
http://www.revisionisthistory.org/jewishnazi.html

Have you heard of the plan to give Madagascar to the Jews?
It didn't work out, but it shows a line of thinking demonstrating that extermination was at least not the first option.

Do you accept that the people in the camps were used as a labour force? They were a very useful workforce during the war. So there was an actual reason (albeit an unpleasant one) why they were needed in the camps.