How the hell do I convince...

[Styvo]

Bump it up a couple of db,in playback when he's at the mixing session with you so he hears it,when he walks outta the room re adjust it so it sits where it sounds good in the mix.
I've had many bass players run through the same pre and every time i notice the same thing.It's the player with the intrument.There isn't an ideal way to deal with it,some personailities are easier to work with than others,but even perhaps give them alternate mix's at an extra price if you like,with bass up and bass down,and let them decide which to use.

 

[Jevil]

I play bass in a metal band with my fingers and I hate compression cause it ruins the groove and feeling.

 

[JBroll]

I see this as the second part of the common guitarist complaint "I know you're supposed to know how to make records sound bitchin' and shit, but NOT ENAUFF BASS BLARGH! SOUNDS WIMP-EE!"... as well as a good reason to beat the hell out of everyone in sight.

One without the other sucks, but... combine them and they're unstoppable!

(By unstoppable I mean, of course, that the egotistical ass calling himself a musician while wearing a guitar thinks everything good is because of his input, and that the egotistical ass calling himself a musician while wearing a bass thinks that because something else is audible he's getting shafted. Bunch of fucks...)

Jeff

 

[gabriel g.]

the new a day to remember record has an amazing bass sound!!!!
It gives the guitars the boom + it has this nice ampeg distorted highs.

The bass gives the punch and boom to the record!!!without bass guitar no balls

 

[Fox Mulder]

the new a day to remember record has an amazing bass sound!!!!
It gives the guitars the boom + it has this nice ampeg distorted highs.

The bass gives the punch and boom to the record!!!without bass guitar no balls

That's exactly where the problem is. Since the guitarist and the bassist are playing the same stuff the bassist can't hear himself. Well, I won't generalize, and I don't want to sound like an ass - but it all comes down to ear-training. Some are capable, some are not.

Second, it is true that modern metal mixing sucks in terms of bass. With the rhythm guitars being so thick + taking up such a huge portion of the frequency spectrum it gets awkward.

Basically, they can't seem to accept the idea of the guitars + bass being one instrument.

 

[Notuern]

That's exactly where the problem is. Since the guitarist and the bassist are playing the same stuff the bassist can't hear himself. Well, I won't generalize, and I don't want to sound like an ass - but it all comes down to ear-training. Some are capable, some are not.

Second, it is true that modern metal mixing sucks in terms of bass. With the rhythm guitars being so thick + taking up such a huge portion of the frequency spectrum it gets awkward.

Basically, they can't seem to accept the idea of the guitars + bass being one instrument.

Well, if you can tell that there is guitars in there without "ear-training", but not with the bass, then something clearly is wrong.
And if you have the guitars double/quadtracked(And panned ofc.), then you have the middle channel open for the bass, which makes it easier to be heard, considering that you allow it to have its own space in the mix.

I do understand your argument, but 90% of the recordings i hear now days dont have any mids or highs in the bass, which makes it fall back in the mix.
If you instead scoop the guitars a little bit, and boost the bass in the mids, you'll get a bass tone that cuts through without taking too much space.

And my opinion about bass tones is that you should be really careful with the distortion, because it does just what you are talking about: Mushes the bass in to a low-range guitar.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Well, if you can tell that there is guitars in there without "ear-training", but not with the bass, then something clearly is wrong.
And if you have the guitars double/quadtracked(And panned ofc.), then you have the middle channel open for the bass, which makes it easier to be heard, considering that you allow it to have its own space in the mix.

I do understand your argument, but 90% of the recordings i hear now days dont have any mids or highs in the bass, which makes it fall back in the mix.
If you instead scoop the guitars a little bit, and boost the bass in the mids, you'll get a bass tone that cuts through without taking too much space.

And my opinion about bass tones is that you should be really careful with the distortion, because it does just what you are talking about: Mushes the bass in to a low-range guitar.

Been there, done that bro.
Of course, this isn't about what we hear.

 

[Harry Hughes]

Give them a mix without the bass and one with it and send them away. I think sometimes bassists just don't realize how much of a part they are playing in a mix because they can't hear it in a very obvious way, but if you listen to a mix with it, and then again with it taken away it becomes very apparent.

+1

 

[beyond dead]

And my opinion about bass tones is that you should be really careful with the distortion, because it does just what you are talking about: Mushes the bass in to a low-range guitar.

very true. I recently had to mix a project where the bass player CRANKED the gain on his boss bass overdrive. luckily I had a di to blend, but the bass player argued it wasnt distorted enough. bringing up the dist. signal made the bass disappear. it didnt help that he played the exact same thing as the guitar player all the time. but this was all my fault that the bass didnt fit in the mix right

 

[GarethSE]

I love that despite the fact bands basically are paying us for our knowledge we're always wrong.

 

[beyond dead]

I love that despite the fact bands basically are paying us for our knowledge we're always wrong.

of course we are wrong... we took their blanky away. we are just plain mean.

another reason I dont like bands sitting in on the mixing. you have to trick them lol