I love Misanthrope

[E V I L]

Fascinating.

It seems the constituents of Lina's Harem are prone to behind-the-scene man-sex escapades. Hey it happens in real harems too hehe.

 

[Belial]

You really are evil.

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Belial
Your ideology is opposite of mine. And I will explain that ideology.

I appreciate this, thanks.

To put it simple, the universe hates me. It doesn't want me.

The universe doesn't hate you, you just think it does.

It never wanted me, and I am not a part of it.

It neither wants you or doesn't want you, it's completely indifferent to your existence because the universe isn't intelligent, it's just a huge mass of energy that is in a constant state of transition/change. Also, you ARE a part of the universe, whether you think so or not, you were spawned and you are composed of the universe and there is nothing you can say or do which will ever change this.

It is yin, I am yang, It is matter, I am anti-matter.

.. which are all aspects of the universe, all spawned from the existence of the universe.

I live in this world, so I am forced to make the best of my life, in a constant rivalry with people who would love to see me destroyed.

The people who would love to see you destoryed are just stupid primates who are too wrapped up in their own subjective and self-sustaining misery to just simply BE.

When I look at people I see something cold that doesn't care if I live or die.

I see the same thing when I look at people, but it doesn't bother me, I just feel sorry for them for being so miserable. If you were to look at me you wouldn't see this however, I think you are very cool and nice and I definitely care if you live or die, so please don't think everyone is an asshole like that, most are I admit, but not all.

You say you feel the universe is an extension of yourself, but I feel it as something that wants me dead. That is why feeling compassion for others is a hard thing for me to do, because I resent humanity because humanity resents me.

I understand exactly what you mean. People are generally hateful idiots, but then, so are most animals and yet it doesn't bother us. Why is that? Why is it that we can be afriad to go into a jungle because something will kill us and this doesn't make us feel bad, but when it's dangerous to walk down the street because human animals might kill us then we get all pissed off and depressed about it. Why? People are animals too, and in some ways twice as stupid and 100 time mores evil, so why does human idiocy upset us?

To me, if someone tries to cause trouble with me for no good reason then it's no different than a dumb dog who growls and barks at me when I walk by it's yard, they are both just instinctual animals who aren't intelligent enough to be civil. I could no more hate a person who fucks with me than I could hate a dog for barking at me, why should I blame *them*? They can't help what they are, they didn't ask to be like they are and they can't help it, it would be like blaming people for having red hair or something. Some people are violent assholes and they can't help it any more than a dog can help barking. I think a mistake a lot of people make is that they expect too much from others, they expect them to be kind and loving and a lot of people just aren't capable of that so it's an unreasonable expectation.

I was raised in a hate-filled house, and I've been resented and antagonised by nearly everyone I've ever known.

Me too. Since you brought it up, I'll give you a little background on me too. I grew up in an extremely physically abusive household and I was very neglected, I've been self-sufficient in terms of domestic duties (cooking, cleaning, getting up for school, laundry, etc.) since I was about 7. I was physically abused a little myself, fortunately I escaped before it got too bad (I was a little too young to slap around when it was all going on) but I saw my older brother get the shit kicked out of him daily (he still has the scars, healed bones, and a fucked up back from it all, not to mentioned some pretty heavy psychological problems which he is still trying to work through). We were also dirt poor, sometimes we went hungry and in the winter we couldn't afford furnace oil for the whole winter so we had to live and sleep in ski-doo suits while indoors much of the time. There's more, but I don't want to get into it, I just wanted to point out that our childhoods were probably not as different as you'd think.

However, I'm not ready to sink into a hole of self-pity. I want to make the universe suffer.

Since you are a part of the universe, if you hurt it then you are also hurting yourself, evidenced by the self-loathing and guilt you'd feel beneath the twisted satisfaction.

Show the world and humanity that it has no right to hate me and it can't kill me.

Fuck them all, but don't sink to their level. Pity them, they are idiots and just like a dumb dog who barks, they don't know any better.

peace man,

Satori

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by leadfoot256
Like you said, I do not feel segregated from the universe and contrary to Misanthrope's belief I do not have to feel that way through "Christ"

yea man, christianity is entirely based on that ridiculous notion of an ego perpetually divided from reality, the whole atomic "soul" thing, and that is the exact opposite of being selfless and feeling completely connected with everything, a fact which may have been lost on Misanthrope but not on you I see, which is cool.

thanks!

Satori

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by dune_666
Satori, how dare you, I thought we shared something special. Now I see you're just a no good two-timer

I know, I know, I a vile sinner who will surely be condemned to HELL for my cheating homosexual ways. But look on the bright side, when I am writhing in agony for eternity you can join the angels in heaven by looking over the edge and licking your lips in satisfaction at the just punishment unleashed on us poor unrepentant heathens, heheh.

Satori

 

[Satori]

Ahem.

I going to make a few very general and sweeping statements here, keeping in mind this is just subjective bullshit and it is neither right or wrong, it's just a way of looking at reality, and inparticular, the evolved human condition of perpetual dissatifaction and angst:

Existing egocentrically, that is, as a consciousness which holds itself apart and distinct from the universe which spawned it (something which all the major religions preach with that whole "eternal soul" nonsense), leads to psychological suffering, fear, hatred, frustration, violence, and unhappiness.

Existing selflessly, recognizing that the self of the individual is the same self of the universe, leads to love, brotherhood, contentment, and fearlessness (something all humans undoubtedly desire, whether they can admit it or not).

Ego (the purely illusory sense of a distinct "self") => angst.


Reading through this thread, I thought this was extremely apparent, and I just felt the overwhelming need to point it out.

anyway...

Satori

 

[Misanthrope]

For someone who hates christianity you borrow alot of their Moral systems, every religion has moral systems and they all have things in common but is not hard to guess you where exposed to such values at some point in your life. Your quest to go out of your way to stop violence ( is ok to dislike it but you just over react ) your absurd universe explanation to justify simple moral values like pity, etc. I do not know why i am the first to point this out it seems so obious that you dislike the fact that you where forced into religion as a kid, and it seems so obious that your quest to destroy it and your obession with being called a christian and trying to destroy it only makes me think your problem has more roots in the fact that you where forced by your parents to do something you did not want to than personal belief into the non existance of god. This is how a lot of us started our journey into the lands of atheism and agnosticism and nihilism and the like, but soon enough i realized that my obession with fighting christianity in debates was more problem with authority, and i see your type in the likes of my fellow drumplayer and friend in my band who also goes out of his way to attack religion but he has a better understanding now. You on the other side elaborated a complex theory ( note that something simple can be the most complex thing in the world cause of its origins ) about life and on first sight you seem like a Ned flanders, on second sight you seem like a blaspheming disbeliver but deep down inside you took those values you where thaught but rejected the authority part ( indeed killing the god in your ideology ) and adopted what it looks like your own value and moral system wich you guide your life with. No one comes up with moral ( or the lack of it ) is something that is passed and modified by us ( or in some cases diminished like i do some times ) and you are certainly not the exeption and it shows. It not on first or second sight but it shows.

I thought you would figure out that i was trying to say this but it seems like this in depth answer was required.

 

[Misanthrope]

Like you said, I do not feel segregated from the universe and contrary to Misanthrope's belief I do not have to feel that way through "Christ"

read above. I wrote all those comments without even looking at the fact that satori was abused as a child, how else would you explain the irracional atempts and amount of energy he expends in trying to destroy christianity? For him is a personal matter, he has to prove it to himself cause of his traumatic memories that are too buried inside himself to be released in a healthy fashion or even an uhealthy one, so it has come to this endless war against everyone and everything that tells him something he disagree's about, spawing all this endless and manipulative comebacks, the endless war against christians, but since is too traumatic to confront it in a direct fashion he hides behind the wall of optimism and love and careless attitute about people who abuses him. Is one of the paths you take when you are abused, nonetheless he did borrowed strongly from those Moral systems he was taught wich might seem like illogic or ironic but 99% of the people holds those values true in one way or another, in a constructive way executing the, or in a destructive wat attacking them, satori attacks the authority part of them and embraces the rest with his own explanations to it.

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Misanthrope
For someone who hates christianity you borrow alot of their Moral systems

..or is it that christianity has certain things in common with some basic common sense things like being ethical? Think about it.

, every religion has moral systems and they all have things in common but is not hard to guess you where exposed to such values at some point in your life.

Whether these values come from religion or society itself is completely irrelevant, had I not been born into a catholic society I still would've been exposed to them, as everyone on the face of the planet IS, therefore it doesn't matter in the least.

Your quest to go out of your way to stop violence ( is ok to dislike it but you just over react )

I don't think I overreacted in the least. You spewing childish nonsense about "tracking me down" and beating/shooting me at a forum get-together was too ridiculous for me not to address, which I did. For the record, I would've given you just as much flack if you had directed such comments at anyone here, the fact that it was directed at me personally just provided me with more than enough justification to play hard-ball with you.

your absurd universe explanation to justify simple moral values like pity, etc.

If you find it absurd then you don't understand it because there's nothing absurd about it in the least and therefore your opinion about it is on the upper end of meaningless.

I do not know why i am the first to point this out it seems so obious that you dislike the fact that you where forced into religion as a kid, and it seems so obious that your quest to destroy it and your obession with being called a christian and trying to destroy it only makes me think your problem has more roots in the fact that you where forced by your parents to do something you did not want to than personal belief into the non existance of god.

Bullshit. I would be athiest whether I was raised within religious boundaries or not, perhaps even more so.

This is how a lot of us started our journey into the lands of atheism and agnosticism and nihilism and the like, but soon enough i realized that my obession with fighting christianity in debates was more problem with authority,

I don't have a problem with authority, I have a problem with lying and exploitation, something religions are extremely guilty of.

and i see your type in the likes of my fellow drumplayer and friend in my band who also goes out of his way to attack religion but he has a better understanding now.

For an explanation of my dislike of christianity, see the post in this thread entitled "Zen 101".

on first sight you seem like a Ned flanders, on second sight you seem like a blaspheming disbeliver

There is no first or second sight, this is just your interpretation. You seem to equate being ethical with being christian, and this is simply ridiculous. There are a lot of ethical athiestic people in this world, and I am one of them.

but deep down inside you took those values you where thaught but rejected the authority part ( indeed killing the god in your ideology ) and adopted what it looks like your own value and moral system wich you guide your life with.

The values of being ethical do not only come from religion, they are embedded into society itself and we all learn them from the time our mommy's insist we say please and thank you, completely regardless if it occurs in a religious context or not. I have friends who were raised without the guise of some mindless system of faith and they are every bit as ethical (and selfless) as me, therefore your theory doesn't stand up to simple reason.

No one comes up with moral ( or the lack of it ) is something that is passed and modified by us

Evolution has instilled in us a sense of reverence for our own species, the same way that it is also instilled in other animals and even insects. Morality is a humanistic interpretation and way of explaining these innate ideals, it is not just a human creation, it's an interpretation of something which pre-dates humanity itself. Religion/people isn't the source of morality, life is, it's a tool of survival. How many species would exist if they didn't have a sense of love for their own kind? Zero. Parents would eat their young and sex simply wouldn't happen.

I thought you would figure out that i was trying to say this but it seems like this in depth answer was required.

It certainly was, and I hope you will take my reply seriously, and I look forward to your rebuttal.

Satori

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Misanthrope
read above. I wrote all those comments without even looking at the fact that satori was abused as a child, how else would you explain the irracional atempts and amount of energy he expends in trying to destroy christianity?

Hehe, this is too much. I dislike christianity because my father was a violent freak? That's quite a stretch there, but I realize you are just bullshitting, and that's cool, just don't think your bullshit will go un-deconstructed.

For him is a personal matter, he has to prove it to himself cause of his traumatic memories that are too buried inside himself to be released in a healthy fashion or even an uhealthy one,

Traumatic memories? What traumatic memories? Dispite it all, I was a very happy, productive, and well-adjusted child. I am who I am inspite of my childhood, not because of it.

so it has come to this endless war against everyone and everything that tells him something he disagree's about,

It's called "debating", perhaps you've heard of it? heheh

spawing all this endless and manipulative comebacks,

Manipulative? hhahah

the endless war against christians,

Which is, in fact, an endless war against ignorance and exploitation, or didn't you know that I am just as anti-muslim and anti-jewish as I am anti-christian? I am anti-bullshit in all it's forms, christianity just happens to be the prevalent one in my society and on the internet so it gets the most attention.

but since is too traumatic to confront it in a direct fashion

What exactly is "too traumatic"? Please explain.

he hides behind the wall of optimism and love and careless attitute about people who abuses him.

Hides? This is some funny shit. This is who I am, who I have always been and always will be, I've never hidden from anything I don't intend to start.

Is one of the paths you take when you are abused,

Newsflash: I was neglected, not really abused, that honour fell to my brother because I was too young, as I have already said.

nonetheless he did borrowed strongly from those Moral systems he was taught wich might seem like illogic or ironic but 99% of the people holds those values true in one way or another,

Ethics/morality is prevalent in every society in the world, even animal societies, so it would very extremely difficult not to "borrow" from them as they are all so much the same, hehe.

in a constructive way executing the, or in a destructive wat attacking them, satori attacks the authority part of them and embraces the rest with his own explanations to it.

Attacks on authority? What the hell are you blathering about now? I am anti-bullshit, not anti-authority, this is just something you fabricated in you head in a half-baked attempt to match wits, but unfortunately for you it was easily disconstructed and dismissed. I happen to think that authority is extremely important to human socieities, without it there would be absolute chaos. Last night for example while driving home from work I passed through a police check for drunk drivers and I told the cop that I appreciate his efforts and thanked him for making the world a safer place. Does this sound like someone who has problems with authority? heheh I quite love authority actually, but only if it is honest and justified, and religion is neither which is why I have such a distaste for it.

By the way, I don't come from a religious family, I come from a religious society, something you perhaps should've thought of before going off on this ridiculous tangent, hehe, but I can see how/why you'd make that mistake. No one in my family is a church-goer, not a single person.

I'm finding your psychoanalysis of me very entertaining, please, more, more, MORE! Tell me, am I homosexual? Do I secretly want to fuck my mother? The answers to these questions and many more can be found in Misanthrope's next post.. stay tuned!

Satori

 

[Misanthrope]

I agree with some points you make, ethical values are in society, but this is no reason to disregard the fact that is a society based on values that come straight from Christianity. This and the fact that your mom taught you such values add togheter and do not negate: your mom and society is the same thing, just one thing a bit more close and personal than the other. This is why you have completly atheist people as friends who are also very ethical, If the society was not founded on such values i would understand. Think about inmigrants in the states. Often they have their OWN set of Moral values and convine them with the once the Christian dominant society ( because it started as such and it has evolved a bit but not too much ) like oriental cultures that carry along an extreme sence of honor much more appreciated than in occidental based moral systems. However after a few generations of living outside of this system of belief it asimilates the one in the christian society and those values from their homeland are lost a few generations after. Everyone who lives in a society and is not an extreme antisocial very aware of moral systems ends up adopting them, either in a constructive way making them their own or in a rebelious way attacking them ( wich usually comes from personal issues ). But life is not black and white, its all shades of greys and this is why people like you come to defy definition and origin. My point is that to me you seem to be right in the middle, you carry a lot of such values that you were taught ( either by society or by your parents wich ends up to be similar imho ) yet you find some parts of the system faulty, and attack them ( mainly the authority and the mytologhy elements of the whole ). Asuming all this you seem to have in common a big share of the moral and ethics a christian based moral society has, but you reject all the explanations and arbitrary impositions the society offers developing your own lack of explanations and introducing your complex yet simple feelings towards people, something that might come from negation and personal trauma ( like i mention above ) but unless its studied with all the facts needed to know it could be flawed or inaccurate and i wouldnt make a final opinion about it. But as i see it you act exaclty like a person who follows the social moral system in every possible way, this is why i compare you to a priest or a Ned Flanders, but a priest or ned flanders are either dumb or scared to confront the obious irracional and arbitrary rules of christianism, or they hold no reason in their personal lifes to develop a problem with it: having a "perfect" childhood in a "perfect" family with no real problems leads to this careless attitude towards explainig or confronting. Those are the 2 main reasons i see for someone in your position, and while you claim to be exclusively on the intelectual choise i see enough facts to make me think you are somewhere in the middle or close to the personal and abuse part of the equation. This does not means you are in either side you are probably a convination of both factors, but i wouldnt be so shure that your intellect is the one that carries more weight, otherwise your attacks wouldnt be so irracional and constant and you would ignore such people and you wouldnt make an efford to prove them wrong, the fact that you always try to prove people wrong also adds to my conclusion that is more a personal matter.

 

[Lina]

Originally posted by leadfoot256
...."Sweet Oblivion"

aahhh, i'm really sorry, leadfoot, i just realized it sounds like i'm implying you're oblivious. i actually wasn't! it just popped into my head. ooops, yeah, i bet you said, "bitch!"


and EVIL, ahhh yes, unfortunately since there's not quite enough of me to go around my harem, some of the members resort to carrying on with each other. 'Tis known as "prison syndrome." But don't you fear, they always come running back to momma.

 

[BillowOfZeal]

aahhh, i'm really sorry, leadfoot, i just realized it sounds like i'm implying you're oblivious. i actually wasn't! it just popped into my head. ooops, yeah, i bet you said, "bitch!"

It's all good.....i already know you're a bitch

It's funny though i happen to be listening to Dwight Yoakam-"your'e the one that made me cry"..etc..

Damn he's cool....and I'm not joking

 

[HoserHellspawn]

Originally posted by Lina
and EVIL, ahhh yes, unfortunately since there's not quite enough of me to go around my harem, some of the members resort to carrying on with each other. 'Tis known as "prison syndrome." But don't you fear, they always come running back to momma.

Ah, so that's what happens to all those poor saps while you and I are so busy. I always wondered what they ended up doing while we go at it multiple times a night...

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Belial
(crowd starts chanting "Jerry! Jerry!) :hotjump:

Jerry! Jerry! Fuck that's hilarious

Satori

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Misanthrope
...also adds to my conclusion that is more a personal matter.

It is completely personal, as well as societal. Someone like me as a child trying to auto-convince/brainwash himself into believing something I always knew as a dumb myth is not healthy in the least. I felt trapped in a life I didn't ask for under guidelines which I simply couldn't follow (ie. kissing "god's" ass out of irrational fear, it's just too ridiculous to take seriously but yet too scary to disregard - the incapacitating TRAP of organized religion).

To me, christianity has always been one giant mind-fuck, and I believe the religion (and others) were constructed in such a way as to incapaciate people from the inside out by locking them in a battle with themselves. This battle is triumphantly labeled "faith". Fear-based political religions teach that above all you must force yourself to literally believe their bullshit, there is no choice not to believe because whether you believe the crap or not you are still subject to the rules laid down by the cruel god freak. People must suppress their own deepest sense of reason and suppress their own better judgement to believe something they know deep in their minds is bullshit. This places people in the faith battle, the subtle and never-ending war with themselves to force themselves to accept that which they know is a ridiculous myth, but at the same time they are too paralysed from fear of the myth to completely disregard it, so they exist in a sort of scared limbo state between the 2 extremes, never quite believing but never able to simply disregard it because of the tremendous amount of fear involved. This sets the person on a life-long struggle with themselves (them "selves") to have "faith", making them extremely self-aware and egocentric as they hold themselves as distinct from the universe - which then leads to all the fear, desire, and misery indicative of the human condition when one feels disconnected from the reality of which they are an integral part.

I strongly feel that for someone to be happy that they must be completely honest with themselves and accepting of themselves. I don't think very many religious people are honest or accepting of themselves, they suppress their own logic in favour of "faith" and in doing so are just fucking themselves in the ass with their own schlongs. There's also the heavy burden of guilt, fear, and unworthiness that goes along with being faithful as they are told they are inherently evil sinners, unworthy of "god", so they must do this groveling and ass-kissing in order to prove their worth and devotion to the unreasonable god cunt. I seriously cannot imagine a more unhealthy state of mind than this. Fear, guilt, and self-suppression of logic/instincts creates what I call cognitive dissonance and ultimately leads to state of perpetual anxiety and in many cases I've seen, a sort of self-inflicted and self-maintained psychosis.

Religions relie heavily on a person's sense of egocentricism, forcing them to accept that if nothing else they are an atomic entity (soul) and always will be. With such a sense of division and self-importance, the individual becomes completely self-absorbed and full of objectives of self-preservation and self-protection. With such a massive sense of ego, feeling selfless and connected to reality is pretty much impossible for the vast majority of religious fanatics. This leads to more fear and more egocentric reasoning which then leads to more faith which then leads to more egocentricism.. etc., it's a viscious circle from which escape is nearly impossible. Therein lies the brilliance (and evil) of organized religions. I firmly believe that this was no accident, I think that religions were constructed in this way to mentally disable people so that the political leaders who use them could dominate/exploit them very easily, paying taxes, fighting in stupid wars and the like. What better way to get people to do the governing body's will than by telling them it's what the god cunt wants and telling them that failure to comply will result in their own suffering in an afterlife? It's particularly fiendish and completely unacceptable. People deserve better than this. Religion is akin to telling a child there is a monster who lives under their bed who will mutilate them if they get up during the night or let their limbs hang over the edge. I feel that intentionally lying to people and using their own darkest fears against them in this way is simply perverse and the absolute pinacle of being unethical. Humans deserve better than to be exploited by their own irrational fears and selfish desires.

We each only get one life and one shot at happiness, and I feel no one has the right to take this away from anyone else with ridiculous and scary fairytales. Therefore, religions and their systematic propogation are unethical.

Reason and intelligence must and will prevail.

Satori

 

[Wolff]

Fucken Satori,

Go to teach in kindergarten or something. That way you can lecture little kidz and shape up their outlook on life. Misanthrope is a lost cause.

You gotta catch 'em young.

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Wolff
Go to teach in kindergarten or something. That way you can lecture little kidz and shape up their outlook on life. Misanthrope is a lost cause.

You gotta catch 'em young.

Thanks for your input. I agree with the catching them young, before they are imprisoned by any of the many mindless scary political myths, but unfortuantely that is not always possible. I did have this luxury with my nephew however, he was developing his own fear-based religious psychosis when he was 9 and 10 and it was creating a lot of turmoil/dissonance in his young mind, just like it did to me. I just quickly explained to him that religion is pure mythology (something he already knew but was afraid to admit to himself or others) and he just snapped out of his little rut pretty much instantly, that moment actually, it was like a huge weight had been lifted from his shoulders and he was so happy and relieved that tears came to his young eyes, he realized he wasn't alone. It was very cool and he was very happy.

Religious-based mental problems are so easy to cure in children because even children are smart enough to realize that it's all a bunch of idiotic and psychologically damaging crap, they just lack the self-confidence to truly accept their own countering point of view on things. As trusted and revered adults, it's so fucking easy for us to give children the confidence they need to face their own fears and overcome them. That's why I always say that early education is the best thing we can do to prevent children from growing up to become fearful and brainwashed adults, giving them a much much greater chance at being happy and truly free from the vile exploitation of their fragile egos.

Satori

 

[Belial]

I never did understand how such a silly concept can be so exalted by the people.

God: The fairy tale you don't grow out of when you hit puberty.

 

[musicholic]

Originally posted by Satori


Thanks for your input. I agree with the catching them young, before they are imprisoned by any of the many mindless scary political myths, but unfortuantely that is not always possible. I did have this luxury with my nephew however, he was developing his own fear-based religious psychosis when he was 9 and 10 and it was creating a lot of turmoil/dissonance in his young mind, just like it did to me. I just quickly explained to him that religion is pure mythology (something he already knew but was afraid to admit to himself or others) and he just snapped out of his little rut pretty much instantly, that moment actually, it was like a huge weight had been lifted from his shoulders and he was so happy and relieved that tears came to his young eyes, he realized he wasn't alone. It was very cool and he was very happy.

Religious-based mental problems are so easy to cure in children because even children are smart enough to realize that it's all a bunch of idiotic and psychologically damaging crap, they just lack the self-confidence to truly accept their own countering point of view on things. As trusted and revered adults, it's so fucking easy for us to give children the confidence they need to face their own fears and overcome them. That's why I always say that early education is the best thing we can do to prevent children from growing up to become fearful and brainwashed adults, giving them a much much greater chance at being happy and truly free from the vile exploitation of their fragile egos.

Satori

Well said... Children are exploited by these vermin and it is good that there are people who are willing to tell them the truth and not just turn their heads.