Originally posted by Satori
I appreciate this, thanks.
No problem. I haven't had a decent debate in a long while.
The universe doesn't hate you, you just think it does.
It neither wants you or doesn't want you, it's completely indifferent to your existence because the universe isn't intelligent, it's just a huge mass of energy that is in a constant state of transition/change. Also, you ARE a part of the universe, whether you think so or not, you were spawned and you are composed of the universe and there is nothing you can say or do which will ever change this.
It is obvious we were speaking on different terms here. was looking from the perspective that the universe is ones harmony with the outside world, which with me is nearly nonexistent, and something I am not a part of.
Since you argue that the universe is just the collective existence of matter and life, then on those terms I am a part of the universe, as is everything and everyone else.
The people who would love to see you destoryed are just stupid primates who are too wrapped up in their own subjective and self-sustaining misery to just simply BE.
True, but it is these "stupid primates" that wield the power. The Christian right wing, as ridiculous as they are, wield a great influence over the government and are slowly worming their way to undo the freedoms guarenteed to us by the constitution so they can replace it with their Christian "morals". Bigoted politicians are as we speak, working on ways to make sure that I can never marry and raise a family, like I dream to do someday.
There are literally people out there who can't sleep well at night, for hatred and fear of what I'm doing in bed, or how the "morality" of society is decaying in their eyes. These people are hateful idiots who I want little to do with, but their existence still poses a great threat, for they will not let me be, or anyone else, and they won't stop until they're hatred becomes legitimate law.
I see the same thing when I look at people, but it doesn't bother me, I just feel sorry for them for being so miserable. If you were to look at me you wouldn't see this however, I think you are very cool and nice and I definitely care if you live or die, so please don't think everyone is an asshole like that, most are I admit, but not all.
I'm glad you have the ability to pity these people. That's not an easy thing to do. You are a unique person, and that outlook on life is a gift.
I understand exactly what you mean. People are generally hateful idiots, but then, so are most animals and yet it doesn't bother us. Why is that? Why is it that we can be afriad to go into a jungle because something will kill us and this doesn't make us feel bad, but when it's dangerous to walk down the street because human animals might kill us then we get all pissed off and depressed about it. Why? People are animals too, and in some ways twice as stupid and 100 time mores evil, so why does human idiocy upset us?
Because we are humans, and we know that we are not above this sort of instinctual idiocy.
To me, if someone tries to cause trouble with me for no good reason then it's no different than a dumb dog who growls and barks at me when I walk by it's yard, they are both just instinctual animals who aren't intelligent enough to be civil. I could no more hate a person who fucks with me than I could hate a dog for barking at me, why should I blame *them*? They can't help what they are, they didn't ask to be like they are and they can't help it, it would be like blaming people for having red hair or something. Some people are violent assholes and they can't help it any more than a dog can help barking. I think a mistake a lot of people make is that they expect too much from others, they expect them to be kind and loving and a lot of people just aren't capable of that so it's an unreasonable expectation.
Two days ago I would have argued against this point, and there is a story behind why I don't now. You like stories, don't you?
Well, last night I went out Christmas shopping. I finished and was on my way home via bus. The bus reached one of it's final stops and the bus driver suddenly turned around and started refering to a passanger across from me. She asked the passanger if he would like to get off, for we were at the destination he specified earlier. The passanger didn't respond, and gave her the silent treatment, only mumbling some things. At one point, the bus driver said: "Do you plan on ever getting off this bus, or should I call someone to help you?" Still, more silence and a few mumbled words. The bus driver decided to forget him for now and just continue driving.
As soon as the bus started to move, the passanger completely lost his mind. He flew out of the chair, ran towards the drivers seat, started jumping up and down, hitting things, screaming "Call the fuckin cops!" over and over. I sincerely thought that he was going to pull a gun, but luckily, he was unarmed. The bus driver stoped the bus right in front of the police presinct building and the police escorted the passanger off the bus. As the moron was escorted, yelling and enraged, one cop poked his head through the door and said: "By the way. Happy Holidays, everyone".
When I looked at this moron, jumping up and down and yelling, I suddenly imagined an enraged chimp jumping up and down and shouting. The passanger even did a chimpish thing with his arms. I had to supress my laughter when he started doing that. That was probably the first time I equated a human with a dumb animal. I always liked to think that humans are a species that evolved past the need to sink to such primal levels of stupidity. That bus passanger proved my theory wrong.
Me too. Since you brought it up, I'll give you a little background on me too. I grew up in an extremely physically abusive household and I was very neglected, I've been self-sufficient in terms of domestic duties (cooking, cleaning, getting up for school, laundry, etc.) since I was about 7. I was physically abused a little myself, fortunately I escaped before it got too bad (I was a little too young to slap around when it was all going on) but I saw my older brother get the shit kicked out of him daily (he still has the scars, healed bones, and a fucked up back from it all, not to mentioned some pretty heavy psychological problems which he is still trying to work through). We were also dirt poor, sometimes we went hungry and in the winter we couldn't afford furnace oil for the whole winter so we had to live and sleep in ski-doo suits while indoors much of the time. There's more, but I don't want to get into it, I just wanted to point out that our childhoods were probably not as different as you'd think.
I'm sorry to hear about your rough childhood, but at least I now know you understand how it feels to grow up with a family that abuses you, and abandons you when you need them the most. (my family has done both).
When I was growing up, my family was poor and we moved from place to place most of the time and lived of food stamps and "ghetto sollutions" like eating old cereal with water, etc. But when I was still relatively young, both my parents got well paying jobs. My mother as a nurse, and my father as a cop, and we became lower middle class. My father would beat my siblings, but not me because I was so young, though I did get my share of beatings a little later. It wasn't physical abuse. just discapline.
Years later I would fall into clinical depression. It got worse every day and my family never cared. They got me a therepist, by order of the government (another story). I would go to the therepist, and would face the ridicule, and even disgust of my family because I'm "phycho". One day, I went to take my daily anti-depressants, and overdosed because I didn't want to live anymore. Luckily I'm a big person, and the dosage per pill was small, so I wasn't effected to the point of having to go to the hospital.
My family made a big joke about it. They laughed because the "fuckin psychotic moron" tried to kill himself and they treated it as a cry for attention or something. My brother even said that he wished I did kill myself. He even handed me a knife and dared me to slit my wrist. He laughed and called me a coward for not doing it. It took years, but I more or less, conqured my depression alone, and I will never forgive my family for their callousness.
Then I made the mistake of coming out to them. That just served as more fuel for the fire. In more ways than one. That's another story that I won't get into.
Since you are a part of the universe, if you hurt it then you are also hurting yourself, evidenced by the self-loathing and guilt you'd feel beneath the twisted satisfaction.
Why should I feel guilty for getting back at something that hurt me all my life.
Fuck them all, but don't sink to their level. Pity them, they are idiots and just like a dumb dog who barks, they don't know any better.
As I said, the ability to do that is a rare gift not all of us have.
