If Mort Divine ruled the world

[CiG]

Fair enough, and a good point. Although I don't know how most black people feel about it, which is partly why I don't feel obliged to answer the question...

My original question still stands though, because I don't think my question is contingent upon all or even most black people caring about the issue. My question is: why do we (i.e. white people) feel the urgency of asking why we can't wear blackface instead of asking why we feel we can wear it, or should be able to wear it? The fact that we approach the question from a particular angle is telling in its own right.

The topic was brought up as a reaction to that Native American man coming under fire, are Native Americans considered white now or something? You're trying to frame it as a white privilege thing, when it's not.

 

[Einherjar86]

rms mentioned that he thought of this in reaction to a Native American dressing up in blackface; but the phenomenon of blackface extends beyond that single example. So I disagree.

 

[Dak]

That's actually not an answer to the question I posed. But whatever.

You're trying to frame it as a white privilege thing, when it's not.

Bingo.

Edit: Given the postjump, I'll clarify: I married doubly outside my race: a mestizo. Furthermore, she knows what I post on here and laughs at PC culture, both in racial and feminist terms (obviously if things were otherwise we probably wouldn't be married). OTOH, I doubt the couple of WKs on this board even know a non-white person, and Pat is married to a (presumably) white striver (which is a great thing btw, I are one). Frankly, I see no one worthy of even selecting stones, much less beginning to throw them.

 

[rms]

rms mentioned that he thought of this in reaction to a Native American dressing up in blackface; but the phenomenon of blackface extends beyond that single example. So I disagree.

Well I first thought of it when I was going to the locker room at my gym and noticed a cultural appropriation sign saying "We are a culture not a costume" but I didn't bother, because it's usually a dominant culture (white) stealing and framing negatively from a minority culture. But then this Apache dude got in trouble so now I just don't understand anymore, and now you are steering us into "white man steals everything, never feels bad" kind of thing.

 

[Einherjar86]

I wasn't even referring to mainly black people, it's just I have a problem with something seen as prejudice without appreciating context.

It is a white privilege issue, in the context of this discussion. We're the ones discussing the issue, and we're all white. Even the Aussie.

Furthermore, subjects from "non-white" cultures identify with white ideology all the time. That doesn't preclude the power of white ideology, or make it contradictory to appeal to it. This is something that right-wing ideologues claim all the time is "embarrassing" for leftists. It simply isn't true. If non-white subject identify with white ideology/culture, then you can make the claim even more powerfully that Eurocentric ideology has permeated the Western world.

In other words, if Native Americans wear blackface and don't see the problem, then the issue if even more dire than we thought.

 

[Dak]

It is a white privilege issue, in the context of this discussion. We're the ones discussing the issue, and we're all white. Even the Aussie.

Furthermore, subjects from "non-white" cultures identify with white ideology all the time. That doesn't preclude the power of white ideology, or make it contradictory to appeal to it. This is something that right-wing ideologues claim all the time is "embarrassing" for leftists. It simply isn't true.

I don't deny white privilege. It exists. It needs to be embraced. The ignorance is in focusing on melatonin levels. White virtues are necessary for the survival of the species past the implosion of the sun. I mean, you can say that doesn't matter, but that's mere empty nihilism, which is also very white of you. The bottom line is not that whites are the smartest, or destined to be the smartest, or any of that stupid shit. The point is that there is a clear future path to"there", and there is also a clear path to the most pleasurable of "now" available, and both of those are generally promoted/enabled by very white people. Promote the shit out of that shit.

Otherwise why complain about Rwandan genocide? That's black as fuck. Why complain about drug war deaths in CA/SA? That's mestizo as fuck. My mestizo wife is nodding. Sure, I'm pulling my version of "I have a black friend card". Where's yours?

 

[Einherjar86]

I don't care if your mestizo wife is nodding; I don't care to pull my "black friend card," which I have, but which I don't need.

There is no "clear future path" provided by white people. There's only a clear future path that has already been identified and illuminated by white people. That's a conflict of interest if I've ever seen one. So I don't care if white people lay claim to the raw material for future progress. I say they should quit thinking so highly of themselves.

 

[rms]

In other words, if Native Americans wear blackface and don't see the problem, then the issue if even more dire than we thought.

I thought we haven't established why one should be upset at blackfacing in the 21st century. Blackfacing is probably the wrong term as that includes a caricature aspect.

 

[Einherjar86]

I thought we haven't established why one should be upset at blackfacing in the 21st century. Blackfacing is probably the wrong term as that includes a caricature aspect.

I'm simply offering a challenge to the claim that a Native American wearing blackface proves that it isn't a white privilege issue; I'm saying that the argument could be made that a Native American wearing blackface means that it is white privilege, and that it is even more entrenched than previously thought.

It's a hypothetical.

 

[Dak]

That's a conflict of interest if I've ever seen one. So I don't care if white people lay claim to the raw material for future progress. I say they should quit thinking so highly of themselves.

Again, ignore melatonin, but that's so difficult amirite? Goddamn stereotypes. It's not the raw materials, it's not who uses it, it's what raw materials are used for. I'm not even interested in leaving this planet myself, as it has plenty of use left, especially at this juncture. It's about about what's going to be needed in the next 1,000,000 years, which for the survival of the species is going to need a particular contribution, which isn't totemism or whatever nonwhite contribution is available atm or the foreseeable future. To suggest otherwise is to suggest nonwhites are of a different species. Which is what the PC crowd is really doing anyway but whatever.

I'm saying that the argument could be made that a Native American wearing blackface means that it is white privilege, and that it is even more entrenched than previously thought.

It's a tautological.

FYP

I thought we haven't established why one should be upset at blackfacing in the 21st century. Blackfacing is probably the wrong term as that includes a caricature aspect.

No, anything other than white men bending over for a gay buttfucking/femdom experience is racist/misogynist. If you believe otherwise you are a goddamn bigot fuckwad who should starve to death while getting shot to death with black dick cum.

 

[Einherjar86]

You get funnier and more obtuse all the time, Dak. I especially like the sodomy imagery.

 

[CiG]

Did you just call me a white person? Ouch, why do you need to spew shadism man?

 

[Dak]

You get funnier and more obtuse all the time, Dak. I especially like the sodomy imagery.

I know. I love sodomy imagery also. Asses are awesome. I'm a little hurt about claims of obtuseness. Pretty sure I'm a damn lighthouse.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

A submerged light house

 

[Dak]

Yes. Giving light to all the white submarines lolz

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

you silly goose

 

[CiG]

I'm simply offering a challenge to the claim that a Native American wearing blackface proves that it isn't a white privilege issue; I'm saying that the argument could be made that a Native American wearing blackface means that it is white privilege, and that it is even more entrenched than previously thought.

It's a hypothetical.

Granted it's an interesting question, though I still see no legitimacy in it's implication.
Is it also a product of white privilege when a black person wears traditional Asian attire or Native American attire?

Afrika Bambaataa wearing a chief headdress comes to mind.
Does the individual's cultural or lack of cultural understanding change it?
What about Native Americans that only wear traditional Native American attire as more of a joke or a costume?

This seems to open the door to claiming that people are capable of aping and disrespecting their own culture.

 

[rms]

This goes back to Ein's argument a few weeks ago about the myths the white culture has put on minority/other cultures. Can't win, can't go anywhere.

Just wanted to know why people get offended by it still

 

[Einherjar86]

I think that wearing something for Halloween specifically is different than wearing it for... I'm not sure what Afrika B. wore a headdress for, but I don't think it was Halloween.

Look, to be honest, all of this is getting into examples that don't really pertain to my original point, which simply had to do with why we assume we (and for us this means white people, but it could mean any people) have a right to invoke the skin color of a subaltern people for leisure purposes. When a white person dresses up as Dr. Dre (just an example) they don't just dress up as Dr. Dre - they dress up as a black person. I think it's entirely reasonable to ask why we have any right to adorn ourselves in anything we wish.

Think of how many costumes we have access to. If there are some outfits that incite disapproval, then why do we feel personally violated when we're told we shouldn't wear them?

 

[rms]

I think your last sentence can go back to my point about costume choice and language being similar.

Why can't anyone dress as anyone for one day? Why can a movie like "White girls" exist but not the opposite?