If Mort Divine ruled the world

[Vilden]

I agree that forcing your opinion down the throat on someone who doesn't want it is wrong and I fully respect that people want to live a more conservative lifestyle and see nothing wrong with it. The problem is that it has to be a choice and when it is forced on people through law, religion, culture etc people don't have that choice and I'm very confident that it hurts people (not all ofcourse) in the process.

 

[CiG]

I can't tell if I'm just tired or if Omni's comment didn't make much sense.
It sounds like you're saying either men say "if you have a baby I'll support you" for sex or that men intentionally get women pregnant in order to trap them into a one-sided sexual relationship.

I agree that forcing your opinion down the throat on someone who doesn't want it is wrong and I fully respect that people want to live a more conservative lifestyle and see nothing wrong with it. The problem is that it has to be a choice and when it is forced on people through law, religion, culture etc people don't have that choice and I'm very confident that it hurts people (not all ofcourse) in the process.

Forced lifestyles on people is always wrong, I doubt anyone here would dispute that.

 

[Omni]

Men frequently state that they want a long-term relationship and children as a basis to begin sexual relationships with women. There's nothing about my post that doesn't make sense to anyone who can read English.

I wouldn't even have to post obvious facts like that if Dak didn't keep trying to make the dishonesty of women seem larger than that of men as a basis of argument.

 

[CiG]

What you're asserting is so asinine that I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you meant something less asinine, confusing myself in the process.

How often do women lie and agree to a man's desire of "no marriage and no kids" in order to land a man? I'd say it's probably about equal.

Also.

I wouldn't even have to post obvious facts like that if Dak didn't keep trying to make the dishonesty of women seem larger than that of men as a basis of argument.

Men and women lie equally to gain access to the bodies of each other.

 

[Omni]

When did I state that men lie more than women? Oh, never. He posted what you quoted only after that was pointed out, yet continued to post more information exclusively about women lying as part of his argument. I stated that men and women both lie already.

Stop replying to comments not directed at you like you're part of the internal discussion taking place between him and I within the larger one. Dak doesn't need you to act as a proxy for him, especially if your sole purpose is to not actually read the words being typed.

 

[CiG]

 

[Omni]

Furthermore, if we are in agreement that men and women both lie about their intentions, using the lies of women as a basis of argument is a pretty poor platform to make a stand upon. You'll notice that I wasn't the one who began that particular line of discussion in the first place.

 

[CiG]

Since you brought it up, actually it was you that catalysed this discussion of dishonesty in sexual relations.

I don't see why it becomes the woman's responsibility if the man chooses to engage in behavior that is specifically designed for reproduction and I will never understand why all arguments against child support make it sound like the man was forced into having sex.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

Lying about how one will be there to support a woman and be there for a child is entirely one-sided and quite common too, and one of the most common ways to gain long-term access to sex without an actual committed relationship on the part of the man.

My guess is you're mincing your words a bit because you're basically being attacked, which shame on those guys. But what I gather from this statement is that a relationship isn't committed unless both parties want children. Not everyone is like that.

Again, maybe I misunderstood. I'm letting you two/ three do your thing for the most part because the discussion became mega retarded with a focus on who said what first. But that did jump out at me, and with your mention of men knowing the consequences of sex, I get the feeling you might be anti-abortion too.

Sex and reproduction technically go hand in hand, but we're such an evolved species I don't think we should pay a price for pleasure. Men or women.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

Fuck, shame on me. I probably appear a white knight for men. Shame on me. But I was raised by a single father with brothers and a lesbian for siblings, so I do have a soft spot in my heart for them penis people.

 

[Omni]

@Carpe Mortem I'm pro-choice. I don't see any reason why you would assume that I'm anti-abortion because I believe that men don't have a true basis for complaint if the voluntary act of sexual reproduction results in reproduction occurring.

Also, I don't think that children are necessary for a committed relationship, but I do think that singling out women as being dishonest as a basis for opposition of child support is a fallacious argument.

 

[Vimana]

Sex and "the voluntary act of sexual reproduction" are not the same thing. That's why contraception exists.

 

[SentinelSlain]

A bit. It's like saying all drugs should be legal and if people want to take heroin then let them. People do dumb things, it's something you can count on and those dumb actions incur societal costs.

 

[Dak]

So much crap has piled up between these posts and now, I'm just going to ignore everything between and go back to these:

Men and women lie equally to gain access to the bodies of each other. Lying about what one plans to do with the proceeds, birth control status, etc., is entirely one sided, even if not as common as lying for access.

I think it's pretty clear we all can agree men and women will equally lie, both verbally and nonverbally, to get sex with particular members of the opposite sex they find desirable - regardless of whether only for pleasure or not. So I think we can lay that part to rest. Now, why the latter sentence is a contentious claim is actually beyond me.

P:Men and women lie equally regarding that thing which is equally attainable (status, appearance, interests, commitment, etc)
P:Women lie exclusively about additional things men couldn't possibly lie about.

C: Women lie more than men.

It shouldn't matter, but I'll point out anyway, that no fault divorce/child support create an extreme conflict of interest for women that simply isn't present for men as it relates to dishonesty regarding children.

Lying about how one will be there to support a woman and be there for a child is entirely one-sided and quite common too, and one of the most common ways to gain long-term access to sex without an actual committed relationship on the part of the man.

"Long term access to sex" without "an actual committed relationship". The only thing I can think of that fits into the situational gap you created is FWB. Never heard of a FWB situation that was initiated with "Hey, lets have regular NSA sex and maybe I'll want to get you pregnant one day and pay out lots of money for 26 years". Certainly not going to work getting short term access. "Hey, wanna make a baby, baby?" Is probably the worst pickup line ever.

 

[JontRevolting]

"Hey, wanna make a baby, baby?" would probably be a great pickup line where I live because most young women here like to have at least 3 kids before they're 20 as a form of income and to buy Spumante.

 

[Dak]

most young women here like to have at least 3 kids before they're 20 as a form of income.

Say it ain't so.

 

[The Ozzman]

Never heard of a FWB situation that was initiated with "Hey, lets have regular NSA sex and maybe I'll want to get you pregnant one day and pay out lots of money for 26 years"

I lol'd

 

[CiG]

The whole reason deceit on a woman's behalf became the basis for an argument against child support is because there are many avenues in which a woman may be deceitful in order to get a man trapped in the system for 18 years and it happens very often. Take off your woman glasses and actually look at things objectively. Nobody is throwing all women under the bus here (after all, we're not feminists) but you'd have to be wilfully ignorant to not see how common it is for a woman to cheat, get pregnant, not say anything and then just let the man pay child support for a child that isn't his. Even after the DNA test reveals it's not his he STILL has to pay and that's just one example of the anomalous/deceitful side of child support that I originally brought up.

Fuck, shame on me. I probably appear a white knight for men. Shame on me. But I was raised by a single father with brothers and a lesbian for siblings, so I do have a soft spot in my heart for them penis people.

You don't appear that way. You're just like a voice of reason coming between us hysterical people.

I never figured Omni for an anti-abortioner though, I think you picked up on some vibes I didn't. She says as a rebut that she's pro-choice even though one doesn't negate the other. I'm pro-choice and anti-abortion myself.

 

[Matt]

You're just like a voice of reason coming between us hysterical people.

You're damn right. This is the truest thing you've said thus far; you are one hysterical motherfucker.

 

[CiG]

You're damn right. This is the truest thing you've said thus far; you are one hysterical motherfucker.

Thanks faggot.