If Mort Divine ruled the world

[Omni]

I didn't make any claims that it reduces suicide rates or whatever HBB is talking about. Read my posts. Never happened ever. Not even once.

I did respond to you, by saying that it is by definition a cosmetic surgery. According to people who've pursued it, it offers some benefits of psychological comfort to people who have gender dysphoria. It may not work for everyone and nobody is claiming that it does.

I also never once stated that I think that anyone else who wants cosmetic surgery should be denied care, but I can see the situational differences here. They are not subtle.

 

[rms]

Denied care and having it covered under insurance are two entirely different things

 

[Omni]

I know.

 

[EternalMetal]

Oh, I remember that discussion. I'm apparently an SJW because I calmly stated that I think that transgender people should be able to get insurance coverage for hormones and surgery in this country, something that already exists outside of the United States. Right. Got it.

I personally don't see the issue with having that opinion.

Negative pressures on insurance companies to cover non-emergent medical situations, which would inflate costs, for one. Should it be ok for ugly people to get plastic surgery for their seemingly disfigured and unacceptable social existence as well? I see no reason why, as a right, hormone and surgical treatments should be afforded as a right to the transgenders. If US healthcare was developed to the point of being entirely fair and encompassing, then maybe you would have an argument, but the fact of the matter is that health insurance is still only for legitimate medical conditions. Plastic surgery for car crash or burn victims and chemotherapy treatment for cancer is on a whole other level than a treatment to physically alter the human body because of a perceived identity crisis. Our healthcare industry is not in a situation to allow for such a luxury. If every insurance plan allowed for full coverage eye and dental care, and for out of area coverage for any surgery that was medically necessary (being able to use a patient choice surgeon), I may think differently. Otherwise, thinking that the transgendered should be allowed special privileges is just being idealistic.

 

[Omni]

Talking about what you think is fair doesn't mean that you think that it's possible for it to happen right now. Let me know if you have an argument that isn't contingent on something that I didn't say.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

... very well said. @EternalMetal

 

[rms]

Is that Putin clapping for himself after he scored 9 goals?

 

[EternalMetal]

Talking about what you think is fair doesn't mean that you think that it's possible for it to happen right now. Let me know if you have an argument that isn't contingent on something that I didn't say.

There needs to be a practical aspect to any stated ideal. How in the world is my counter-argument a straw man?

 

[Omni]

Your argument is that it would be difficult to cover transgender benefits with our current ill-eqipped private insurance and healthcare models. It isn't a valid counterargument at all, since I'm not disputing it and never was. I'm actually in agreement with you on that.

My opinion is only that transgender people should be able to receive coverage and medical care, not that our current system makes a feasible option. If you have an opinion on that, it would likely amount solely to your personal opinions on transgender people and wouldn't be something that either of us could prove one way or the other.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I didn't make any claims that it reduces suicide rates or whatever HBB is talking about. Read my posts. Never happened ever. Not even once.

I did respond to you, by saying that it is by definition a cosmetic surgery. According to people who've pursued it, it offers some benefits of psychological comfort to people who have gender dysphoria. It may not work for everyone and nobody is claiming that it does.

I also never once stated that I think that anyone else who wants cosmetic surgery should be denied care, but I can see the situational differences here. They are not subtle.

You made the claim that it helps them, in the context of Mort talking about suicide.

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...ruled-the-world.964710/page-141#post-11106672

If you weren't talking about suicide, in what non-cosmetic way are you saying it "helps" them?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Oh wait, you blatantly just lied.

"I did respond to you, by saying that it is by definition a cosmetic surgery."

"Basic sexual reassignment surgeries and hormone replacement therapy aren't strictly cosmetic procedures."

 

[Omni]

What does the word "strictly" mean? I challenge you to explain how HRT is a cosmetic procedure, by the way.

Yeah, no lying occurring. Last time I checked, "strictly" means that something isn't specifically limited to one thing only. You would have to be deliberately ignoring that fact to interpret it that way.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Did you miss the "and" in the second quote?

So now that you acknowledge that gender reassignment surgery is cosmetic, how does it help people any more than plastic surgery, hair transplant surgery, etc?

 

[Omni]

Again, show me where I ever stated that SRS wasn't cosmetic. I have repeatedly stated that it was.

It's done for very different reasons than other cosmetic surgeries, but I never stated that it helps anyone more than other cosmetic surgery.

You must be admitting that you intentionally misinterpeted my post since you aren't disputing it. That and the fact that it's obvious that you did.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

So do you believe all cosmetic surgeries should be equally covered by medical care/insurance?

 

[Omni]

No, I don't. Last time that I checked, male pattern baldness and small boobs don't make it difficult for the average man or woman to assimilate into society and be accepted as the gender that they identify as.

That's my viewpoint. You can disagree if you want, but it's really not my problem if you do.

 

[Mort Divine]

It isn't even worth arguing it with them.

While SRS does not reduce risks of suicide below that of the general population it certainly does help ease dysphoria.

Shit, we can probably at least agree that HRT is helpful and should be covered.

Overall, 61% of the group of patients without treatment and 33% of the group with hormonal treatment experienced possible symptoms (score 8—10) or symptoms (score >11) of anxiety (Table 3). The same pattern was found for symptoms of depression; the percentages were significantly higher in the group of patients without treatment (31%) than in the group on hormonal treatment (8%).

 

[Mort Divine]

yeah, just be happy when there is a boot on your neck.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

No, I don't. Last time that I checked, male pattern baldness and small boobs don't make it difficult for the average man or woman to assimilate into society and be accepted as the gender that they identify as.

That's my viewpoint. You can disagree if you want, but it's really not my problem if you do.

What percent of societal interactions involve displaying your genitalia to others?

 

[Omni]

More than you would have experience with. That I'm certain of.