If Mort Divine ruled the world

[EternalMetal]

@Mort - Without a placebo group, the above un-cited study is invalid. If there was a placebo group, do you wish to post those values as well?

Your argument is that it would be difficult to cover transgender benefits with our current ill-eqipped private insurance and healthcare models. It isn't a valid counterargument at all, since I'm not disputing it and never was. I'm actually in agreement with you on that.

My opinion is only that transgender people should be able to receive coverage and medical care, not that our current system makes a feasible option. If you have an opinion on that, it would likely amount solely to your personal opinions on transgender people and wouldn't be something that either of us could prove one way or the other.

I guess thats the problem with out of context points, especially when you were trying your hardest to take the moral high road. My main opposition to your claim is that overly putting forth a need for justice in this case would actually minimize the necessary improvements that need to be made first. Saying "I personally dont see the issue with having that opinion" was inviting someone to point out why. There are thousands of people who have outstanding medical bills because of procedures that were done out of absolute necessity, and to argue for the justice of a group that wants, not needs surgery, would actually be a bit counterproductive if acted upon. I can see that your initial point was made irrelevant to the practicality of it, and therefore id rather not argue the point any more.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

More than you would have experience with. That I'm certain of.

So you're telling me that transwomen get rejected for their penises by potential suitors, but cutting it off and turning it inside out makes them attractive? Any numbers on this?

 

[Omni]

No, that's definitely not what I was saying. There are a lot of things that are difficult to do if you can't convincingly appear to be the gender that you identify as.

Your post makes it seem like the main reason to be transgender is to trick people into having sex with you or something.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Sex was the only reason you gave in your reply. What things other than sex are difficult to do if you can't convincingly appear to be the gender that you identify as? Reminder that the most successful female CEO is a transwoman.

 

[Omni]

Gee, I dunno. Maybe being in public dressed in feminine clothing or using a public restroom? Both of those things are situations where transgender women who don't pass convincingly face harassment on a regular basis.

I have two transgender employees. One of them passes convincingly and has very little trouble at work. The other one has a harder time because of her appearance and has been harassed by other employees and customers. Both of them are model employees that work in the same place on the same team doing the same work for the same customers.

A hypothetical that I don't hear about is a transgender woman going to the beach and wearing a feminine bathing suit. I don't think that would go over well if she didn't appear female. This obviously isn't a daily situation like the ones above, but it's clearly a realistic one.

 

[Mort Divine]

Yeah, let's ignore the violence against trans people because one trans woman is a successful CEO.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Gee, I dunno. Maybe being in public dressed in feminine clothing or using a public restroom? Both of those things are situations where transgender women who don't pass convincingly face harassment on a regular basis.

I have two transgender employees. One of them passes convincingly and has very little trouble at work. The other one has a harder time because of her appearance and has been harassed by other employees and customers. Both of them are model employees that work in the same place on the same team doing the same work for the same customers.

A hypothetical that I don't hear about is a transgender woman going to the beach and wearing a feminine bathing suit. I don't think that would go over well if she didn't appear female. This obviously isn't a daily situation like the ones above, but it's clearly a realistic one.

Do the non-passing employee regularly show her penis to customers? What surgery would help her to pass?

Why can't this hypothetical transwoman just tuck? Is she really well-hung?

 

[Omni]

You broadened your initial query by asking how someone who doesn't appear to be the gender that they identify as could have trouble. If you didn't like that answer, you shouldn't have asked the question.

I've successfully answered both of your questions anyway.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

You didn't give a good answer. If reassignment surgery is necessary for transpeople to fit into society, you need to show how it's necessary. What specific surgical procedure would allow the non-passing employee to pass?

btw, why don't you fire those shitlords for discriminating against one of your employees?

 

[Omni]

SRS may not be necessary in all cases in order for all transgender women to be able to pass in all situations, but it clearly goes a long way towards helping them do so in a variety of them, especially cases of particularly good outcome coupled with HRT and augmented by additional optional cosmetic procedures. I shouldn't have to explain how surgery that makes someone look a particular way can help them look that way. This is consistent with what I've said, since I've never claimed it should be mandatory and I've stated that it may not help everyone equally. It should still be available.

What makes you think that I haven't disciplined or terminated people who violate company policy? My workplace takes harassment pretty seriously.

 

[Dak]

yeah, just be happy when there is a boot on your neck.

But you are pro boot on neck. Just a who-whom question

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Do you work HR? That would explain a lot.

 

[Omni]

I don't exclusively do HR work, but that is a part of my job. My main function is collecting various types of data and interpreting them. Some of that is related to HR, but a lot of it is related to logistics and efficiency too.

Basically, every person in a management position here has different specialized projects. Mine is all about collecting and delivering that data. Other people do more work directly with customers.

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

 

[Dak]

Throwing good money after bad. Just like every other SJW project. Fucking black hole of resources. Killing the planet one (hundred thousands of) dollar at a time.

 

[The Butt]

Rektsplaining.

 

[rms]

Gee, I dunno. Maybe being in public dressed in feminine clothing or using a public restroom? Both of those things are situations where transgender women who don't pass convincingly face harassment on a regular basis.

Do you see the problem here? You are addressing the shitty quality of the average person by placing the responsibility on the trans person. The trans person shouldn't have to assimilate to the status quo of what is acceptable but rather the opposite. The trans person will never truly fit in. That's OK, most people will not ever fit in, but to think the problem will be fixed because trans people look less masculine/feminine is asinine.

 

[Mort Divine]

I actually agree with the basic idea behind that post. No one should have to fit into any given societal ideal of what a given gender is supposed to be.

This even ends up being a problem within the trans community. Trans women who aren't feminine enough get crap, trans men who are more feminine get crap.

However, access to tools that can aid in trans people's transition should be made available affordable. Not everyone is Caitlyn Jenner with an endless supply of money from sports and reality tv careers. It is about providing access to what is needed to ease their dysphoria.

 

[rms]

The problem is with your last paragraph is that gender dysphoria is given more legitimacy than any other 'cosmetic' surgery. And that is a distinction that I find hard to agree with.

 

[Omni]

Do you see the problem here? You are addressing the shitty quality of the average person by placing the responsibility on the trans person. The trans person shouldn't have to assimilate to the status quo of what is acceptable but rather the opposite. The trans person will never truly fit in. That's OK, most people will not ever fit in, but to think the problem will be fixed because trans people look less masculine/feminine is asinine.

I don't think that they should have to. I made that clear already. In fact, I stated it directly if you read what I've said in this topic. That doesn't change the fact that many want to fit in and should have the option to do so. Don't try to turn it around on me when I've already made it clear that I don't think it should be an expectation.

That is an example of why it should be available, not why it should be required or expected. If a transgender person wants to fit in, they should have the opportunity.