If Mort Divine ruled the world

[CiG]

Fair point. Maybe I'll watch it all at some point... but probably not.

I wish you would because it deserves a good discussion on here beyond Argisms.

 

[CF87]

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

Camille Paglia: Women Aren’t Free Until Speech Is

 

[Dak]

As much as I agree with Paglia on certain proximal, current issues, I think she should place some blame on herself to blame for laying the foundation for the current hideous and destructive environment. The Left has not, generally, been about any sort of principal other than destruction. The long-longed-for utopia is a completely flat plane, devoid of any special feature that would mark difference, and especially anything transcendent. Whether that plane is high or low is functionally of minimal interest - and as it is easier to tear down than build up, we know what the historical result of left leveling is.

 

[Oblivious Maximus]

The long-longed-for utopia is a completely flat plane, devoid any special feature that would mark difference, and especially anything transcendent. Whether that plane is high or low is functionally of minimal interest - and as it is easier to tear down than build up, we know what the historical result of left leveling is.

Polish writer Jerzy Zulawski perfectly summed up the concept of utopia:

“Nothing can be done for the current system. Society isn’t a product of rationality and that’s why it absolutely never will be. Every utopia – from the oldest Platonic beginnings, throughout the stretch of centuries until today, all utopias are houses of cards which do not care about the laws of gravity. From the moment one puts a hand to such an undertaking, a new evil becomes visible, appearing in place of the old one that was removed. The perfect coexistence of people in an ideal system – inherent human nature makes it impossible to achieve such a thing."

That was written in 1911.

http://translatingmarek.com/the-moo...cies-of-jerzy-zulawski-polands-hg-wells-1969/

 

[CiG]

I think she should place some blame on herself to blame for laying the foundation for the current hideous and destructive environment.

How specifically is this accurate?

 

[Dak]

How specifically is this accurate?

There's way too many data points and philosophical perspectives involved for me to bother trying to tie that together in a forum post. I won't insult you by saying it's "obvious", but I do believe it's true (which is the one thing obvious).

 

[CiG]

There's way too many data points and philosophical perspectives involved for me to bother trying to tie that together in a forum post. I won't insult you by saying it's "obvious", but I do believe it's true (which is the one thing obvious).

Copout.

Because she supported the sexual revolution, is one thing I assume? Just trying to get a sense of where you're coming from.

 

[Dak]

Copout.

Because she supported the sexual revolution, is one thing I assume? Just trying to get a sense of where you're coming from.

It's not a copout. I'll just say I'm way too busy to support my assertion as it doesn't fit in 140 characters.

 

[CiG]

It's not a copout. I'll just say I'm way too busy to support my assertion as it doesn't fit in 140 characters.

 

[Dak]

You're obviously free to believe whatever you want. Paglia is currently a "conservative", as she is attempting to conserve a particular spot in a leftist progression. She's basically Tomi Lahren with a verifiable academic pedigree and a better grasp of the details.

 

[CiG]

All these responses, you probably could have just posted the comment you said you don't have time to type.

 

[Dak]

It takes me less than a minute to type resposnes like these. Finding a bunch of references and carefully constructing arguments, all or most of which will probably ignored, takes far longer and for probably no greater benefit.

 

[Einherjar86]

I wish you would because it deserves a good discussion on here beyond Argisms.

I watched it. I'm not sure what you want to discuss. I was aware that it sucks to be gay in predominantly Islamic countries. What's the argument--that Islam is definitively worse than Christianity or Judaism?

I'm just curious, what do you make of the stat that more Muslims in America are more tolerant of homosexuality than American Evangelicals?

 

[CiG]

What I make of it is, I'm glad the American Evangelicals aren't in power.

The only reason I brought up initially the comparison was to rub TechBarb the wrong way since he has said multiple times that he prefers Muslims to Jews and Christians and thinks they're much less violent people than the other two, which is obviously ridiculous.

I didn't have any specific discussion in mind when I posted that video either, after all this is the Mort thread, eg shitposting.

But if I were gay in the middle east I'd move immediately to Israel if I couldn't make it out. For good reason. Islam is garbage and though I support reformers, we shouldn't have to go through it with them, we as a civilization did that already with all the other nutjob maniacs of Judaism and Christianity.

 

[CiG]

The U.K. parliament was just attacked by a radical Islamic preacher, 5 dead, many injured. It's never-ending.

 

[Einherjar86]

What I make of it is, I'm glad the American Evangelicals aren't in power.

But this isn't the perspective you were originally espousing, is it?

You said that Islam is definitely worse than Christianity and Judaism, yet in the West we find that Muslims are often better than Christian subgroups. My point has always been that you can't reduce this to religion--geography and history play an important role. Even speaking "practically," it doesn't make sense to say that Islam is worse than any other major monotheistic religion.

We don't have to discuss or argue about it, I just found it distasteful to sit through a video that underscores, in explicit detail, the atrocities suffered by gay men in Islamic countries. You can tell a lot from tone, and that video's intention is to inflame its viewers toward Islam without taking into account any geopolitical or cultural history.

 

[CiG]

You said that Islam is definitely worse than Christianity and Judaism, yet in the West we find that Muslims are often better than Christian subgroups

I definitely disagree with this. How does anybody find that to be true in the west? In America perhaps, but the west? That's contentious to say the least. Let's not forget that the main source of terror for Muslims living in the west are other Muslims, so without even leaving the Islamic community you're already wrong.

Evangelicals may preach intolerance, but they don't throw acid in women's faces, commit honour killings, convince rape victims to go through Sharia rather than the police (which fundamentally means no justice for the victim), mutilate the genitals of girls, marry off children to older men, hide terrorism suspects from police, there are even stories of women going to mosques in western dress and being bullied into covering up by the men.

We can play the ping pong game of religious retardation all day, but I see quite clearly which faith is the global threat right now and it certainly isn't Christianity. Ask the apostates fleeing to the west.

My point has always been that you can't reduce this to religion--geography and history play an important role. Even speaking "practically," it doesn't make sense to say that Islam is worse than any other major monotheistic religion.

Well many ex-Muslims disagree with you. Of course it is not 100% religion, but you also cannot ignore the fact that Islam is a warrior faith which sets it apart from all other monotheistic faiths which are still violent but are much more furtile for reformation into a modern way of interpretation.

It makes perfect sense to say it's the worst. You can come to this conclusion via many lines of thought. You can judge it by its founder, his life and actions. You can judge it by its concepts of jihad which teaches that the only way to Heaven is by killing non-Muslims. You can judge it by Sharia. You can compare the Hadith to Jesuism, essentially the teachings of Muhammad vs the teachings of Jesus. You can judge it by the fact that the caliphate is still an active utopianism existing within Islam (whereas Christendom is not) and so on.

We don't have to discuss or argue about it, I just found it distasteful to sit through a video that underscores, in explicit detail, the atrocities suffered by gay men in Islamic countries. You can tell a lot from tone, and that video's intention is to inflame its viewers toward Islam without taking into account any geopolitical or cultural history.

Maybe you're just a little sensitive to "muh Islamophobia" or some other progressive nonsense?

Actually the intention of the video was specifically a response video to a LGBT pro-Islam support movement of some description. In that context, the tone makes perfect sense. I'd expect the same from a video addressing black supporters of the KKK. Islam is not just opposed to that community, it violently annihilates it wherever it rules and reviles it actively wherever the Islamic culture takes root.

 

[Einherjar86]

I definitely disagree with this. How does anybody find that to be true in the west? In America perhaps, but the west? That's contentious to say the least. Let's not forget that the main source of terror for Muslims living in the west are other Muslims, so without even leaving the Islamic community you're already wrong.

Evangelicals may preach intolerance, but they don't throw acid in women's faces, commit honour killings, convince rape victims to go through Sharia rather than the police (which fundamentally means no justice for the victim), mutilate the genitals of girls, marry off children to older men, hide terrorism suspects from police, there are even stories of women going to mosques in western dress and being bullied into covering up by the men.

We can play the ping pong game of religious retardation all day, but I see quite clearly which faith is the global threat right now and it certainly isn't Christianity. Ask the apostates fleeing to the west.

You're still making the error of conflating difference in religion and difference in geography. I'm saying that in the West, Muslims are no worse than any given subset of Christianity. In the West, you don't find rampant honor killings or rapings. Does that mean they don't happen? Of course not--but then, Christians commit crimes as well.

My point is that in the Western world, Muslims refute the notion that Islam is worse than Christianity.

Well many ex-Muslims disagree with you. Of course it is not 100% religion, but you also cannot ignore the fact that Islam is a warrior faith which sets it apart from all other monotheistic faiths which are still violent but are much more furtile for reformation into a modern way of interpretation.

And many current Muslims disagree with you. Neither of those arguments hold much sway.

It makes perfect sense to say it's the worst. You can come to this conclusion via many lines of thought. You can judge it by its founder, his life and actions. You can judge it by its concepts of jihad which teaches that the only way to Heaven is by killing non-Muslims. You can judge it by Sharia. You can compare the Hadith to Jesuism, essentially the teachings of Muhammad vs the teachings of Jesus. You can judge it by the fact that the caliphate is still an active utopianism existing within Islam (whereas Christendom is not) and so on.

The Hadith was compiled over a century after Mohammad's death. It's about as rational to equate the Hadith with the actual utterances of Muhammad as it is to equate the Gospels with the biography of Jesus Christ. You ever play the game "Telephone"?

It doesn't make sense, I'm sorry, because you insist on universalizing the examples of non-Western countries as the standard of "true Islam," or some such nonsense. You cannot prove to me that this is accurate, nor even begin to put forth a convincing argument. If you think you have an argument that there's a "true" Islam, then I have an argument for you that Westboro Baptism is "true" Christianity.

Maybe you're just a little sensitive to "muh Islamophobia" or some other progressive nonsense?

Maybe I am--but if so it's because I have problems with shoddy arguments and online videos that appeal to pathos.

 

[arg]

Christianity used to be violent, Islam has always been and still is violent. Less pronounced in places where still a minority, but clearly they're working on that. Pull your head out of the sand dude