CiG
Sand-Boondy Assassin
But I'm only speaking of objectivity in the sense that, right now at this very moment and quite especially I would say starting with the fatwah against Salman Rushdie and the subsequent random murders of those associated with him (so since the 1990s) Islam is the religion causing the most amount of trouble, globally.
I'm not, nor have I ever said, that Islam is objectively the worst since the beginning. Christianity I would say has likely caused the most problems historically.
I've not made a historical argument. It's entirely based on the present.
This argument here^ I made has very little to do with what's in the books but rather how Muslims act culturally.
Now, you didn't respond when I brought up problems in Indonesia, which does not fall in line with your idea that I'm conflating religion with geography. So I'm bringing it up again.
Also, you don't seem to consider that in the west you pretty much don't see any Christian honour killings or rapings. With Christianity and Judaism, rape is for lack of a better phrase, secular. It's not justified religiously. Whereas there are rape cases in the west with Muslims who claim to be justified doing it because the victim is kafir, inhuman etc. Often the victims are Sikh unfortunately.
In the U.K. they're experiencing a new phenomenon of rapists and pedophiles sharing victims and this is not a network of disgusting people meeting online but often Muslims sharing the victims with male family members, Muslim friends and Muslim co-workers.
Even Muslim taxi drivers are getting involved in this strange phenomenon.
Not over their religion, over their culture. Especially in the west, where if you abandon your community in any sense (whether it be by leaving the religion or by speaking out against some injustice and being ostracized) you're trapped in a hostile, lonely environment, maybe you can't speak English very well to top it all off. So many Muslims become compliant via silence.
It happens on a very micro-scale in Amish and Mennonite communities for example. Community silence protects the bad apple in order that the whole apple-cart doesn't fall apart.
I think I only actually made one appeal to objectivity didn't I? That the penalty in Islam for apostasy is death in extreme cases and shunning/being an outcast in moderate cases.
That's a false comparison though, as we see patterns among Muslim criminals that suggest religiosity and we do not see patterns among Christian criminals. Someone committing a crime who just happens to be a Muslim (eg robbing a store, mugging someone, gang violence etc) is not a factor in my argument, it's when many of the victims have either been decapitated or decapitation was attempted, notes or videos are left behind indicating allegiance to some radical Islamist group, anti-Semitism plays a big role and so on.
Yes there are times when we must take the nature of a crime into account before we label it Islamic or Christian, this doesn't take away from anything I've said so far.
I think this comment especially indicates what's gone wrong, as you think you've found an inconsistency in my position, that you seem to think I'm using Islam in the current to say that it is objectively worse than all other religions absolutely. I'm not, I've stated that Islam is objectively the worst right now.
I would agree with this if we're talking historically.
Again, agreed. But are you suggesting I'd have to wait a few hundred years for Islam to "catch up" before I can say, that period between 1990 and 2020 man Islam was the worst...?
I appreciate the time and effort, I know we probably won't agree though and that's fine.
