If Mort Divine ruled the world

[Dak]

I disagree, unlike yourself and Spencer I think statements on other cultures and civilizations can emerge from sources other than a raw racism.

Retracted my 'like' from Dak because I don't agree that Trump was racially motivated. Race =/= culture.

I don't know that Trump is racist but it wouldn't surprise me if he was based on odds. But yeah, Race=/=culture, and the agreement between Spencer and leftists says more about leftists than Trump.

 

[Einherjar86]

I disagree, unlike yourself and Spencer I think statements on other cultures and civilizations can emerge from sources other than a raw racism.

Sure they can, but not when the comments are explicitly racially structured.

i.e. Norwegian immigrants are better than African immigrants. I'm sorry, if one doesn't detect the racial overtones of that comment, then one is a dumbass. For the record, I'm talking about Trump, not you--either he has no political sensitivity (not hard to believe), or he doesn't care (also not hard to believe, and equally as bad).

I can't be convinced that it's okay for him to make comments like this. The shit-for-brains needs to own up to the value of language, and the left will keep reminding him of that.

 

[Dak]

Sure they can, but not when the comments are explicitly racially structured.

i.e. Norwegian immigrants are better than African immigrants. I'm sorry, if one doesn't detect the racial overtones of that comment, then one is a dumbass. For the record, I'm talking about Trump, not you--either he has no political sensitivity (not hard to believe), or he doesn't care (also not hard to believe, and equally as bad).

I can't be convinced that it's okay for him to make comments like this. The shit-for-brains needs to own up to the value of language, and the left will keep reminding him of that.

Norway has a better literacy rate than Africa at large (problematic because of heterogeneity in Africa) and especially Haiti. You don't care about those facts though. Only language, comments, eg approved words. Words are infinitely malleable and therefore of spurious use as it becomes the user's fidelity to accuracy.

 

[Einherjar86]

Norway has a better literacy rate than Africa at large (problematic because of heterogeneity in Africa) and especially Haiti. You don't care about those facts though. Only language, comments, eg approved words. Words are infinitely malleable and therefore of spurious use as it becomes the user's fidelity to accuracy.

Sure I care about those facts. Why the fuck would Norwegians want to come to America? I'm fully capable of acknowledging Norway's successes in contrast to the failures of African countries. I'm also capable of separating those details from the racial dynamic of Trump's language.

 

[CiG]

I don't know that Trump is racist but it wouldn't surprise me if he was based on odds. But yeah, Race=/=culture, and the agreement between Spencer and leftists says more about leftists than Trump.

Well, I think all humans are racist to some degree, to not be so would be strange. But I don't think Donald Trump is a Richard Spencer type who thinks there is a higher and lower order of races. I think he's just boorish, in the past he essentially called Sweden a shithole iirc and I think it's pretty clear that he's an American exceptionalist who looks down his nose at all other nations who aren't America.

Sure they can, but not when the comments are explicitly racially structured.

I don't agree that they are. You would never hear Donald Trump insulting African-Americans in such a way or any other race connected to America, he's a cultural chauvinist. That probably sticks in the craw of the subsection of the left who believes all cultures are equal but those people are fucking idiots anyway.

i.e. Norwegian immigrants are better than African immigrants. I'm sorry, if one doesn't detect the racial overtones of that comment, then one is a dumbass.

You seem to be the dumb ass here if you don't realise the context of such a statement. Do you really think Norwegian culture and society is no better in at the very least what it has achieved than African ones? Africa is one giant backwards disaster zone with tribal warfare and so on, Norway is a modern advanced social democracy.

But no, for racialists like intersectional leftists and the alt-right it's all down to race.

I can't be convinced that it's okay for him to make comments like this. The shit-for-brains needs to own up to the value of language, and the left will keep reminding him of that.

Trump may be post-literate (as in he doesn't read) but the left as you say isn't qualified to speak on the value of language anymore than anybody else is, especially given the ferocity with which they have largely wrenched context from society. In fact this might be just the example of that very thing.

Trump's context was that Norwegians come from a culture of well-educated people with a history of liberal values and so on. Africans you cannot really say the same for.

It might be uncomfortable for people to face.

 

[Einherjar86]

Well, I think all humans are racist to some degree, to not be so would be strange. But I don't think Donald Trump is a Richard Spencer type who thinks there is a higher and lower order of races. I think he's just boorish, in the past he essentially called Sweden a shithole iirc and I think it's pretty clear that he's an American exceptionalist who looks down his nose at all other nations who aren't America.



I don't agree that they are. You would never hear Donald Trump insulting African-Americans in such a way or any other race connected to America, he's a cultural chauvinist. That probably sticks in the craw of the subsection of the left who believes all cultures are equal but those people are fucking idiots anyway.



You seem to be the dumb ass here if you don't realise the context of such a statement. Do you really think Norwegian culture and society is no better in at the very least what it has achieved than African ones? Africa is one giant backwards disaster zone with tribal warfare and so on, Norway is a modern advanced social democracy.

But no, for racialists like intersectional leftists and the alt-right it's all down to race.



Trump may be post-literate (as in he doesn't read) but the left as you say isn't qualified to speak on the value of language anymore than anybody else is, especially given the ferocity they have largely wrenched context from society. In fact this might be just the example of that very thing.

Trump's context was that Norwegians come from a culture of well-educated people with a history of liberal values and so on. Africans you cannot really say the same for.

It might be uncomfortable for people to face.

Well, I already responded to this above, so I'll say no more.

 

[arg]

He does not have to be racist to call a shithole country a shithole. It’s more likely he means it’s a shithole because of poverty and violence, not because of the skin color of the people living there.

But even if he did mean it in a partially racist way, it does not matter. We do not want immigrants from shitholes just because they are shitholes

 

[Dak]

Why the fuck would Norwegians want to come to America? ...........I'm also capable of separating those details from the racial dynamic of Trump's language.

Apparently you can't.

 

[CiG]

Well, I already responded to this above, so I'll say no more.

I'm also capable of separating those details from the racial dynamic of Trump's language.

The point: the racial dynamic is in your head.

 

[CiG]

Perhaps the ultimate irony re: Haiti is that I don't remember this level of outrage over what the Clintons actually did in Haiti with their relief fund foundation activities, of which many Haitians still harbor a repulsion towards the Clintons for.

The left think they're the protectors of the power of words, not really. Reacting more hysterically to words over actions simply hurts everybody and does nothing for the sanctity of language.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

That's a pathetic excuse.

He's 100% right on that. When you have a polarized political system with a narrow window of political acceptability, and each side resorts to terms like "Nazi", "communist", racist", "anti-American", etc to shut down outsiders, it's an inevitable outcome that the only ones willing to speak are those so fringe that they've stopped caring about political viability. It's just another example of the "Pied piper" strategy that put Trump into power in the first place.

 

[Dak]

That's a pathetic excuse.

Oh I'm sorry. I forgot that my opinions must conform in all things to the media presented social order. Ahem

BURN THE HERETIC!!!!!!

I'm sorry it's not on Twitter so I could properly broadcast my piety but it's the best I could do on short notice.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

Just to trigger you guys, here are your coveted Scandinavian immigrants:

 

[Dak]

I've got a radical policy proposal: Subsidize emigration to Haiti for everyone so triggered by Trump. Surely free moving removes the only barrier to relocating to that Caribbean island paradise. #notyourpresidentanymore

 

[CiG]

Just to trigger you guys, here are your coveted Scandinavian immigrants:

Still better than: raised without a clitoris.

 

[Einherjar86]

The point: the racial dynamic is in your head.

Not quite, otherwise other people wouldn't identify it. You could say it's a collective hallucination... but then, we could also argue that the acknowledgement of consciousness in other human beings is a collective hallucination since there's no way for me to crawl inside your head and verify your consciousness.

Let's assume that Trump isn't a bigoted nincompoop, that his language truly was not racially motivated. He could have just as easily said "Why do we want people from economically disadvantaged countries?" or "Why do we want people from politically tumultuous countries?" or "Why do we want people from socially reactionary countries?" But he didn't; he chose the word "shithole."

"Shit" and "blackness" have a socially interrelated history; but of course, someone like Trump probably doesn't know this. Walter Mosley hints as much at the end of his story "Dr. Kismet" when his protagonist says that black signifies the absence of knowledge, black holes, what white people can't see. It's the color of shit.

Some people might say that this association didn't precede the fabrications of fiction, but that fiction produced the association, thereby making it art's fault; but this isn't true either. From the first interactions between white Europeans and black natives, the dark skin color of the latter was associated with "miasma" and "effluvia." In other words, dark-skinned individuals were closer to waste fluids, noisome substances, and general decay (source: Susan Scott Parrish, American Curiosity: Cultures of Natural History in the Colonial British Atlantic World).

So describing these countries as "shitholes" is a racially inflected comment, even if Trump didn't mean it as such. It isn't "in my head."

 

[CiG]

Not quite, otherwise other people wouldn't identify it.

AKA the hivemind.

Let's assume that Trump isn't a bigoted nincompoop, that his language truly was not racially motivated. He could have just as easily said "Why do we want people from economically disadvantaged countries?" or "Why do we want people from politically tumultuous countries?" or "Why do we want people from socially reactionary countries?" But he didn't; he chose the word "shithole."

So your complaint essentially boils down to: Donald Trump isn't an establishment politician.

Well that's a large part of why he was elected by his supporters, because he doesn't play the language games that characterize mainstream politics. Why are people such as yourself so aggressive in your refusal to realise that he was elected as an attack against political correctness and not to play into it?

The man is a boorish douchebag and that's actually what they wanted.

"Shit" and "blackness" have a socially interrelated history; but of course, someone like Trump probably doesn't know this. Walter Mosley hints as much at the end of his story "Dr. Kismet" when his protagonist says that black signifies the absence of knowledge, black holes, what white people can't see. It's the color of shit.

Some people might say that this association didn't precede the fabrications of fiction, but that fiction produced the association, thereby making it art's fault; but this isn't true either. From the first interactions between white Europeans and black natives, the dark skin color of the latter was associated with "miasma" and "effluvia." In other words, dark-skinned individuals were closer to waste fluids, noisome substances, and general decay (source: Susan Scott Parrish, American Curiosity: Cultures of Natural History in the Colonial British Atlantic World).

Jesus Christ, now I'm just thinking it's you who is the racist here.

 

[Einherjar86]

Jesus Christ, now I'm just thinking it's you who is the racist here.

Why? Because I note the linguistic structures by which people of darker skin colors are hierarchically categorized and associated with particular ideas, images, etc. and oppose them? Being conscious of racism doesn't make one's consciousness itself racially motivated. You're confusing concern with callousness.

 

[CiG]

Why? Because I note the linguistic structures by which people of darker skin colors are hierarchically categorized and associated with particular ideas, images, etc. and oppose them? Being conscious of racism doesn't make one's consciousness itself racially motivated. You're confusing concern with callousness.

No because all of that comes to your mind when you hear cultures and countries called "shitholes" because that's exactly what they are and race isn't mentioned anywhere.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Let's assume that Trump isn't a bigoted nincompoop, that his language truly was not racially motivated. He could have just as easily said "Why do we want people from economically disadvantaged countries?" or "Why do we want people from politically tumultuous countries?" or "Why do we want people from socially reactionary countries?" But he didn't; he chose the word "shithole."

"Shit" and "blackness" have a socially interrelated history; but of course, someone like Trump probably doesn't know this. Walter Mosley hints as much at the end of his story "Dr. Kismet" when his protagonist says that black signifies the absence of knowledge, black holes, what white people can't see. It's the color of shit.

Some people might say that this association didn't precede the fabrications of fiction, but that fiction produced the association, thereby making it art's fault; but this isn't true either. From the first interactions between white Europeans and black natives, the dark skin color of the latter was associated with "miasma" and "effluvia." In other words, dark-skinned individuals were closer to waste fluids, noisome substances, and general decay (source: Susan Scott Parrish, American Curiosity: Cultures of Natural History in the Colonial British Atlantic World).

So describing these countries as "shitholes" is a racially inflected comment, even if Trump didn't mean it as such. It isn't "in my head."

How about instead of using words longer than three syllables, you pick something that conveys the meaning of "shithole" without the imagined racial implications. "Dump"? But that implies garbage which often can turn a sickly brown. "Cesspool"? Oh wait that's poop again.

I'm glad you're the first person I've seen make this stretch so far, not even the MSM has crossed that bridge yet afaik, generally they just say "But they're shitholes because of whitey 200 years ago" or "He's so reckless and will scare talent away from coming here" or "WW3 impending" or "Check your privilege".

Relevant to your ability to dissect the true meaning of our world from science fiction: