If Mort Divine ruled the world
- Thread starter Zephyrus
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The Ozzman
Melted by feels
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
The Ozzman
Melted by feels
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Oblivious Maximus
I am the worm
rms
Active Member
jesus christ
Einherjar86
Active Member
With the caveat that I haven't reflected on this at length, I'm inclined to say that I'm 100% on board with McWhorter's comments in this vid (or at least 90%).
Dak
mentat
McWhorter says precisely what I've said about the presentism that feeds the SJW movement (and in general all passionate outrage among the fresh adults). Nice bit of a HA panel. The problem I see for HA pulling in diverse views is that even McWhorter has faced Uncle Tom-like criticisms.
Einherjar86
Active Member
My only potential reservations have to do with his comments on social media, which I think have achieved both good and bad effects in terms of social discourse. But he doesn't condemn social media as such, he just emphasizes that it's made it harder for him to teach. I can get on board with that.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Einherjar86
Active Member
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
I disagree mostly with what he said about snowflakes. It's not some great mystery or grandiose theory, it's just a slur for people who have a meltdown over everything. SJWs absolutely are like that.
He also lost me when he said there are certain topics we don't need to talk about (slavery, genocide, women's liberation) and therefore absolute free speech on campuses isn't necessary. He already loses the game when he says that, because SJWs get everything done via a kind of creep, he even mentions it himself when he talks about how SJWs try to shut down topics or people with looser and looser interpretations.
Once you say certain subjects are off the table, the authoritarians will do what they can to interpret everything as being related to those blacklisted subjects. This is a problem with academics, they think everybody else is as nuanced as they are but they're not.
He also lost me when he said there are certain topics we don't need to talk about (slavery, genocide, women's liberation) and therefore absolute free speech on campuses isn't necessary. He already loses the game when he says that, because SJWs get everything done via a kind of creep, he even mentions it himself when he talks about how SJWs try to shut down topics or people with looser and looser interpretations.
Once you say certain subjects are off the table, the authoritarians will do what they can to interpret everything as being related to those blacklisted subjects. This is a problem with academics, they think everybody else is as nuanced as they are but they're not.
rms
Active Member
Here's what I do have a problem with: He controlled, in a monstrous way, the manner of his professional return — and then he used the word "rape" in his set. For laughs. For a "joke" about how rape whistles are "unclean."
What the fuck? What the FUCK?
These chicks are really freaking out over Louis ck lol
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/l...-learned-nothing-im-done-guest-column-1138704
What the fuck? What the FUCK?
These chicks are really freaking out over Louis ck lol
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/l...-learned-nothing-im-done-guest-column-1138704
Dak
mentat
Einherjar86
Active Member
This is just something you and I will always disagree on. I do not believe that saying certain things are off the table grants power to some authoritarian mob. There are certain topics that, depending on the historical moment, need to be off the table. Otherwise anyone can raise any objection to any situation and it has to be discussed. That's part of the problem. If someone can just say "I know, but what about slavery???" as much as they want, then we can say goodbye to productive debate.
To put this another way: if authoritarian power mobs present a potential problem, then absolute free speech presents a problem that is just as bad. It's either socially controlled speech, or incessant repetition.
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CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Disagree. When you take certain subjects off the table, anybody can extrapolate that until it means Ben Shapiro is a Nazi because he talks about conservative values. You get people who actively and obsessively try to draw parallels between acceptable ideas and what moral arbiters deem unacceptable in order to limit the scope of discussion.
Free speech has to be absolute IMO not because anybody wants to talk about stripping women of their rights but rather because any talk about women that isn't progressive will be silenced on the grounds that it fuels ideas like female oppression. This already happens to feminist scholars who question transgenderism like Germaine Greer.
Having things off the table might work for a round table of academics, but that's about it.
Free speech has to be absolute IMO not because anybody wants to talk about stripping women of their rights but rather because any talk about women that isn't progressive will be silenced on the grounds that it fuels ideas like female oppression. This already happens to feminist scholars who question transgenderism like Germaine Greer.
Having things off the table might work for a round table of academics, but that's about it.
Einherjar86
Active Member
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
I also don't think free speech absolutism means you have to listen to everybody who speaks.
I also unlike a lot of right-wingers don't give a shit about self-censorship. If you're too spineless to speak up about something, that's your own problem IMO. Don't blame others because you're a cuck etc.
My main issue is just all the deplatforming and silencing going on. I've never liked moral busybodies, pearl-clutchers and soft-censorship creeps and that doesn't just automatically become okay conduct because the left are doing it now. Fuck them.
I also unlike a lot of right-wingers don't give a shit about self-censorship. If you're too spineless to speak up about something, that's your own problem IMO. Don't blame others because you're a cuck etc.
My main issue is just all the deplatforming and silencing going on. I've never liked moral busybodies, pearl-clutchers and soft-censorship creeps and that doesn't just automatically become okay conduct because the left are doing it now. Fuck them.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I'm not sure where the middle ground is here, or if we're nearing it. I don't think McWhorter saying that certain topics should be prohibited in public spaces between like-minded individuals who want to have the discussion. I don't even know how you censor that.
He's saying that there can't be absolute free speech in the classroom because then we'd never get anything done.
He's saying that there can't be absolute free speech in the classroom because then we'd never get anything done.
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