If Mort Divine ruled the world

[Einherjar86]

Having things off the table might work for a round table of academics, but that's about it.

That's what McWhorter is talking about, though. I don't mean that speech needs to be policed in every aspect of society, right down to your local bar. There's a difference between speech happening in a university classroom and speech happening in O'Hara's Irish Pub.

 

[CiG]

I also don't think free speech absolutism means you have to listen to everybody who speaks.

I also unlike a lot of right-wingers don't give a shit about self-censorship. If you're too spineless to speak up about something, that's your own problem IMO. Don't blame others because you're a cuck etc.

My main issue is just all the deplatforming and silencing going on. I've never liked moral busybodies, pearl-clutchers and soft-censorship creeps and that doesn't just automatically become okay conduct because the left are doing it now. Fuck them.

 

[Einherjar86]

I'm not sure where the middle ground is here, or if we're nearing it. I don't think McWhorter saying that certain topics should be prohibited in public spaces between like-minded individuals who want to have the discussion. I don't even know how you censor that.

He's saying that there can't be absolute free speech in the classroom because then we'd never get anything done.

 

[CiG]

That's pretty autistic. Absolute free speech doesn't mean certain subjects won't be dismissed due to relevancy and time constraints etc. Is censorship the only alternative to always addressing all subjects all the time?

 

[Einherjar86]

Absolute free speech doesn't mean certain subjects won't be dismissed due to relevancy and time constraints etc.

This is precisely the issue we're dealing with in American education though, specifically higher ed. Students (both SJWs and right-wing contrarians) are complaining that teachers are censoring them by telling them their subject isn't worth discussing in the classroom. Then word gets out that academics are imposing censorship in the classroom!!! *gasp*

For my part, I always leave the door open for a student to talk to me in person (either after class or during office hours); but so many students want the limelight and get upset when they're not allowed to talk about contrarian and/or irrelevant issues in class. Then they accuse teachers of censorship. That's the problem we're dealing with. Very few academics are playing the "moral busybody" in the classroom; they just want to teach their subject matter. But that's difficult when students accuse you of censorship for trying to stay on topic.

That's why I feel the whole free speech issue is being misconstrued, and why I think McWhorter is on point.

 

[CiG]

Never heard of that scenario until now. Mostly what I hear about is that self-censorship stops people from giving honest answers and views during a discussion or that snowflake teachers and students obsessively have guests censored even though they were invited to speak.

The scenario you're using as the main example sounds like a non-issue to me. I don't even know a single person who considers free speech their main issue that has ever brought that up.

 

[Dak]

https://quillette.com/2018/08/25/the-dangers-of-ignoring-cognitive-inequality/

This means that having a low IQ doesn’t only make you more likely to get killed or fall victim to an accident. It also means you’re more likely to undergo difficulties in progressing up every ladder in life. You’ll often feel permanently ‘stuck at zero’—unable to improve or change your position. Most of us will experience this feeling at least a few times in our lives, whether encountered in school (being unable to break the ‘A-grade’), in our social lives (being unable to establish or maintain a successful romantic relationship), or in comparatively trivial areas. Yet most of the time, it is transient—passing when we switch our efforts to a new endeavor, or after devising a way to solve the problem. Very few of us know what it is like to have that feeling almost all of the time—to have a large proportion of one’s attempts at self-betterment or advancement frustrated by forces that seem to be beyond our control. Being trapped in such a dismal psychological state for only a brief interval can lead to anxiety, depression, or dependence. In some, this feeling of ‘being stuck at zero’ (that the world is manifestly unfair and against them) will lead to resentment—and resentment can turn into murderousness.

 

[Dak]

Imagine the levels of reee in response to showing this video in a Gender Studies class.

 

[rms]

tattoos being equal to fat/single mom is worthy

 

[Dak]

tattoos being equal to fat/single mom is worthy

I'm obviously not speaking for everyone but....if I were suddenly a widower and back in the dating market looking for someone with the qualities of being intelligent, stable, good company at home, and possessing of homemaking skills, tattoos do not tend to signal the confluence of those qualities. Note I said tend. I also said nothing about the attractiveness of the tattoos.

 

[no country for old wainds]

depends on the design tbh, to me some tattoos indicate dumbshit rednecks/chavs and some tattoos indicate an intelligent/interesting person

 

[Dak]

depends on the design tbh, to me some tattoos indicate dumbshit rednecks/chavs and some tattoos indicate an intelligent/interesting person

I'll tentatively agree with this. I will say that sheer volume of tattoos, no matter how interesting, tend to signal against any interest in some traditional mothering etc. Obviously, some guys aren't interested in that, but then those aren't the guys that vlogger is assumed to be talking to - or the kind of guys women she's talking to are looking for.

 

[rms]

I'm obviously not speaking for everyone but....if I were suddenly a widower and back in the dating market looking for someone with the qualities of being intelligent, stable, good company at home, and possessing of homemaking skills, tattoos do not tend to signal the confluence of those qualities. Note I said tend. I also said nothing about the attractiveness of the tattoos.

you could just say humans don't tend to have those qualities

but her point was that being fat or being a single mom weighs you down...tattoo's don't do that at all but that shit was terrible, is that the MGTOW world or something? holy moly

 

[Dak]

you could just say humans don't tend to have those qualities

but her point was that being fat or being a single mom weighs you down...tattoo's don't do that at all but that shit was terrible, is that the MGTOW world or something? holy moly

Well, sure they don't. But those who do tend to signal it.

I don't think you know what MGTOW is if you think advice towards women looking for more traditional men is MGTOW.

 

[rms]

i read the comments and the related videos were all mgtow shit. women suck so i'm going solo, so of course mgtow men would be like yeah shitty women listen to this shitty woman about being less shitty women

 

[Dak]

i read the comments and the related videos were all mgtow shit. women suck so i'm going solo, so of course mgtow men would be like yeah shitty women listen to this shitty women about being less shitty women

Well MGTOWers are generally navel-gazers, like many SJW subgroups. Identify a problem, then run off and engage in non-constructive behaviors. Like commenting on that video.

 

[Einherjar86]

Never heard of that scenario until now. Mostly what I hear about is that self-censorship stops people from giving honest answers and views during a discussion or that snowflake teachers and students obsessively have guests censored even though they were invited to speak.

The scenario you're using as the main example sounds like a non-issue to me. I don't even know a single person who considers free speech their main issue that has ever brought that up.

It's exactly what professors are struggling with in academia. It sounds like a non-issue to you because you're not exposed to it.

If students feel like they can't give honest answers, it's not because the faculty are censoring them. It's because they feel intimidated in the presence of very vocal, often antagonistic classmates. These classmates are the ones complaining about censorship, ironically, when they're told by instructors that they're impeding the conversation.

 

[Dak]

It's exactly what professors are struggling with in academia. It sounds like a non-issue to you because you're not exposed to it.

If students feel like they can't give honest answers, it's not because the faculty are censoring them. It's because they feel intimidated in the presence of very vocal, often antagonistic classmates. These classmates are the ones complaining about censorship, ironically, when they're told by instructors that they're impeding the conversation.

I will generally agree with this, but there are completely antagonistic professors.

 

[Einherjar86]

There are, but they are far fewer in number (and in percentage, I'd venture) than antagonistic students. Social media has made a battlefield of the classroom.

 

[Dak]

Random anecdote relating to antagonistic professors vs students:

There's a student NRA organization at my university (which is apparently kind of rare). I stopped by their table recently and asked how much harassment they get. They said they mostly just get dirty looks from students if there's any negative interaction, but that a professor from the Psych dept had been bashing them on social media etc. within the last year or so, and then blocked people who disagreed. On the upside, they reported that the whole incident netted them a sizable increase in positive student interest.