If Mort Divine ruled the world
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CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Einherjar86
Active Member
rms
Active Member
Dude admits that sexual favors were offered. These ladies seem pretty damn aware of what's going on
The Ozzman
Melted by feels
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Einherjar86
Active Member
I'm not sure I follow. He admits sexual favors were offered--as in, he admits that he attempted to solicit sexual favors, or that his victims willingly offered...? The key word, of course, is willingly.
She clarifies exactly what the problem is with these encounters:
Even if Thompson "offered" sexual favors (which she actually didn't at all; promiscuity doesn't mean a woman owes a man sex), the problem is that she clearly offered them under duress. Predators like Weinstein exploit the advantage of their reputation and power. He knew full well the odds are that, given the sheer amount of women coming to him for financial backing, some of them are bound to cave when he pressures them for sex. Or if they don't cave, at least it can be shown that they were promiscuous.
The entire situation is weighted against them. If they reject his advances outright, they're seen as not "playing the game" or some bullshit. Thompson tried to play the game and suffered for it. I'd say the evidence shows precisely that.
rms
Active Member
this defintion of predator is way too broad and honestly kind of foolish. I shouldnt have to point out the obvious, but Weinstein exploited what got him laid, like most men and most women.
"bound to cave" ahhh. sure, none play the game with the Weinstein's of the world. Only those that "cave" or those that leave.
she went up to a bear, knew it was a bear, and acts surprised it was a bear. This seems obvious with the fact that she was secretly taping this.
"She said: "I don't think I purposely encouraged him." -- the naive flirtatious woman!
"I think there was a combination of confidence and naivety that led me to this dynamic that we see now, watching back"
"I didn't want to blow the meeting." -- lol yeah, why have any shred of dignity
"I worked in Wall Street before I went to business school, " before we talk about her being a poor woman unable to get a leg up on the world
"In an interview, she described how she was under the impression that meeting was to potentially close the deal." -- laugh out fucking loud.
"We don't have to live with things that are illegal and abusive." -- sure as shit didnt mind as long as he didnt rape you and hand over some $'s
she even straight out lies and says she thought the second meet was for dinner / close the deal. Harvey says he wants a drink and can you meet at 530, nothing about business in that sentence. ???
how you don't realize this double standard of giving her agency of 'playing the game' while at the same time 'caving.' you can't have both.
she went to play the game. who knows if he raped her, he says these chicks all consented, she says she misinterpreted everything and that he backed her into the room, after following him around the hotel to his room, after consenting to meet him for a drink. the evidence, by just going off the video and what Harvey admits (that he did shit for sex all the time), makes me wonder how this video is supposed to make him seem worse here.
Dak
mentat
Einherjar86
Active Member
That you see no problem with this is part of the problem.
Yes, he did exploit what got him laid, you're absolutely right. You don't have to point it out; I can see that.
The problem is that he exploited a business relationship in which he had all the cards, and coerced someone into behaving promiscuously when she felt that doing otherwise would have meant losing his financial support. If you don't see why that's a problem then I'm not sure what else I can say.
This makes no sense.
This makes no sense either. She explained why she taped it.
Accusing a woman of not having any dignity because she didn't want to blow her chances of a financial deal with one of the most powerful media moguls in Hollywood basically makes you a piece of shit. So we could talk about that, if you want.
Why wouldn't this be a reasonable assumption?
You're assuming the entire interaction was transparent, which is part of your problem.
This is always the same tired response: that victimization deprives subjects of agency while proclaiming to treat them as agents.
You clearly misunderstand what agency is. Agency isn't all or nothing. It's not like you either have agency or you don't. People have varying degrees of agency in various situations, and different social positions enjoy varying degrees of agency. She had a choice to leave the meeting, but she didn't have a choice to negotiate with Weinstein on an even playing field. So if she wanted to improve her odds, she could relinquish some of that agency (an agential choice, mind you) and hope he's not a fucking raging lunatic.
Thompson has agency but that doesn't mean she has options. Withholding sexual favors shouldn't negatively impact someone in a business negotiation; and demanding or even implying sexual favors is a form of coercion.
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Dak
mentat
I guess the women who have come out saying "These women know the game in Hollywood" type statements are being pieces of shit?
Einherjar86
Active Member
Dak
mentat
Guys like Weinstein being scum and these women being less than innocent about the situations are not mutually exclusive options.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Harvey Weinstein is fucking gross. Just reading through these stories of what people went through with him makes the skin crawl.
The main thing I would criticize all these women for is not for playing along with Weinstein's weird games but for keeping silent about what Weinstein was doing knowing full well many women will also be victims and they did it all for the sake of their careers.
The main thing I would criticize all these women for is not for playing along with Weinstein's weird games but for keeping silent about what Weinstein was doing knowing full well many women will also be victims and they did it all for the sake of their careers.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I never suggested that Thompson was innocent. I think she knew full well what was going on. But I also think any fault that could potentially be laid on her is entirely dispelled by the fact that Weinstein made it so that her livelihood depended on her promiscuity (and more).
She has nothing to apologize for.
I sympathize with this, but also know how difficult it is to come forward in these situations (for more reasons than just one's career; it also has to do with how victims believe they're perceived by others). As we're seeing, there's strength in solidarity, and it would have been great if that had been realized sooner.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
C'mon now. If you're being sexually harassed at work, you report it and/or quit your job and get a new one. She clearly felt the massive wages were worth it on some level.
Fully aware of why they didn't, I'm just not convinced by it completely. Germans hid Jews in their homes under the scrutiny of the Nazi state and these women can't come forward and expose a serial harasser operating one of the biggest companies in Hollywood? To me it seems more like it was about money and now that we live in a very progressive feminist era it's no longer a blow to the bank account to do stuff like this.
I'm not saying they're on the same ethical level as Weinstein but when it's that specific industry it's hard for me to rule out financial opportunism. It's especially fucked up because as everybody has said, there were always rumours about Weinstein, so it's not completely that these women were too scared to come out and expose him because they were whispering about it behind closed doors for years.
These are the same people that worshiped Roman Polanski openly until the #MeToo era when right-wingers started constantly bringing him up. They seem to always act in an opportunistic manner until the herd morality of Hollywood makes it financially detrimental to do so.
Einherjar86
Active Member
It doesn't matter. Weinstein made it part of the deal, and that's where the blame lies.
If you're being harassed at work, and it's a job you love, maybe you find ways to endure; but you shouldn't have to.
I really don't see how any of the onus is on Thompson in this case.
Hiding Jews in secret is very different from speaking out publicly.
The point is that men, by and large, don't have to play by the same kind of rules when it comes to financial opportunism. They've made the rules; that's just history.
If we allow the argument that women should just quit or speak up immediately when harassed, then we open the door to a mass evacuation of women from the workplace.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
The only onus on her is that she chose money over being victimized. Other than that of course the blame is on that fat slug.
Agreed, one is an actual risk to your life, the other is a risk to your public persona and your bank account. Just saying.
Not even sure what this means. These women are massively wealthy, they're not weak women trapped in a situation where it's either stand up or starve.
What?
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Man, if people on the left think like you more often than they don't, that women can't address a problem the moment it manifests or that they just endure harassment for their career without saying anything or leaving for a different job or workplace, I have no idea how women will ever rise above shit like this.
Women should record their interactions with fucking scumbags like Weinstein and immediately take it to the press when anything happens. These male powerhouses treat their offices like a private island where they can do whatever they want and they should live in fucking fear of being exposed. None of this will change until we get over this idea that victims can never be criticized. They let him get away with this for DECADES.
Women should record their interactions with fucking scumbags like Weinstein and immediately take it to the press when anything happens. These male powerhouses treat their offices like a private island where they can do whatever they want and they should live in fucking fear of being exposed. None of this will change until we get over this idea that victims can never be criticized. They let him get away with this for DECADES.
Einherjar86
Active Member
Stop acting like I'm denying women agency. That's not what I'm doing at all.
And why should she be blamed for that?
Agreed. And one may end up yielding no repercussions at all, the other is guaranteed to yield repercussions. Just saying.
Starving isn't the issue. The issue is being permitted to operate freely in a marketplace, as supposedly the "free market" allows. Men enjoy all the opportunities of the marketplace, but women have to sell their bodies. Men aren't subjected to this. That's what I'm saying.
You're telling women the option is fuck or leave.
And why should she be blamed for that?
Agreed. And one may end up yielding no repercussions at all, the other is guaranteed to yield repercussions. Just saying.
Starving isn't the issue. The issue is being permitted to operate freely in a marketplace, as supposedly the "free market" allows. Men enjoy all the opportunities of the marketplace, but women have to sell their bodies. Men aren't subjected to this. That's what I'm saying.
You're telling women the option is fuck or leave.
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