If Mort Divine ruled the world

[Dak]

I don't think I can restate whats been quoted and restated over the last 3 pages in some new way which is going to clarify the matter, but I'll give it a try.

I think everyone is in agreement that Weinstein etc. are terrible persons who exhibited terrible, absolutely unacceptable behavior. The sexual quid pro quo has no place in a civilized society. What I see you denying here is that there's not a problematic flip side to this, which is the system requires supply. If it didn't ever work, it wouldn't be arguably systemic in Hollywood. It's not systemic in academia because it doesn't/wouldn't work (or no longer does), and there are clear rules against it. Plenty of women have been open about using sex to move up in entertainment. You seem fine with this.....unless men go along with it? This doesn't even make sense. And as an aside, I can't imagine you suggesting this be the state of affairs in academia. Why is it completely acceptable for women to use sex to get things they want, but it's absolutely reprehensible for men to use things to get sex? Now, I'm not talking a lock-the-door-and-hold-you-down event here, I'm talking about the sex-for-career-boost quid pro quo arrangement in entertainment.

As far as Thompson's story in particular goes, that you buy this bullshit naivety is something that obviously you aren't going to be talked out of so I won't spend more time there.

 

[Einherjar86]

Why is it completely acceptable for women to use sex to get things they want, but it's absolutely reprehensible for men to use things to get sex?

There you go. There's the center of this whole thing. That you think these two things happen as though in a vacuum and are of equal value.

I'm not saying it's acceptable that women use sex to get things they want. You're misunderstanding me over and over again. I don't think it's acceptable at all that they're forced to make a decision on whether to risk their bodies or bow out completely. Sexuality shouldn't be on the table in the first place, but because it is victims are forced to work within a set of narrow options. The acceptability and reprehensibility of sexuality, as we're discussing them, take place on two different hierarchical levels. They can't be judged equally.

For what it's worth, I think it's reprehensible that Avital Ronell used her position to get sex, and that it's acceptable for Reitman to have gone along with it.

 

[Dak]

There you go. There's the center of this whole thing. That you think these two things happen as though in a vacuum and are of equal value.

I'm not saying it's acceptable that women use sex to get things they want. You're misunderstanding me over and over again. I don't think it's acceptable at all that they're forced to make a decision on whether to risk their bodies or bow out completely. Sexuality shouldn't be on the table in the first place, but because it is victims are forced to work within a set of narrow options. The acceptability and reprehensibility of sexuality, as we're discussing them, take place on two different hierarchical levels. They can't be judged equally.

If I'm misunderstanding you it's because of statements like this:

Let women act promiscuous if they think it might help their business deals. Let them meet for a drink at 5:30 if they think doing so might lead to closing the deal.

No one is forced to get a job in entertainment, or "Hollywood". No one is forced to go to people like Weinstein for buy in. The hierarchy of power is much less clear than in an academic case, or a military case, etc. Who-whom becomes muddy. One could argue pretty women are preying on wealthy men.

For what it's worth, I think it's reprehensible that Avital Ronell used her position to get sex, and that it's acceptable for Reitman to have gone along with it.

I would say that it's understandable for Reitman rather than acceptable. Just like we can say it's understandable when all these teen boys getting predated by middle and high school teachers go along with it, but it's not acceptable.

 

[Einherjar86]

I don't think it's convincing that pretty women are preying on healthy men. For the sake of avoiding pure speculation, I won't say any more.

I would say that it's understandable for Reitman rather than acceptable. Just like we can say it's understandable when all these teen boys getting predated by middle and high school teachers go along with it, but it's not acceptable.

Exactly. I'm sorry if my choice of the word "acceptable" caused some misunderstanding.

I'm saying that it's understandable that women go along with this; it's not acceptable in any broader sense. It's entirely unacceptable, in fact. I was using acceptable in place of understandable, i.e. if sexual favors are part of the deal, then I understand why (or accept that) women concede to such demands.

But it shouldn't be part of the transaction to begin with. And that's where the legal onus lies.

 

[CiG]

I don't think it's convincing that pretty women are preying on healthy men.

*wealthy

That's the game. The reverse is just as true.

 

[Einherjar86]

hahaha, I was just watching that Bill Hicks skit where he talks about the "health nut who died while jogging," and wrote "healthy" instead of "wealthy."

If an opportunistic woman in the workplace is able to seduce a male higher-up into sexual misconduct and then take him to court, I have no sympathy for that man. If you're work colleagues, keep your dick in your pants. It's not that fucking hard (that's what she said).

Just like I said about Avital Ronell: it doesn't matter if you thought your student/employee was consenting. In that situation, there's no way for you to gauge that accurately. So avoid it altogether.

 

[CiG]

hahaha, I was just watching that Bill Hicks skit where he talks about the "health nut who died while jogging," and wrote "healthy" instead of "wealthy."

If an opportunistic woman in the workplace is able to seduce a male higher-up into sexual misconduct and then take him to court, I have no sympathy for that man. If you're work colleagues, keep your dick in your pants. It's not that fucking hard (that's what she said).

Just like I said about Avital Ronell: it doesn't matter if you thought your student/employee was consenting. In that situation, there's no way for you to gauge that accurately. So avoid it altogether.

Peak sex-negative leftism, but fair enough. I actually do agree that Men Should Go Their Own Way and avoid all these honey pots and traps and legal grey areas. I just find it amusing that you seem to lay zero shit on the women engaging in these practices, this is where the feeling that you constantly deny women (and other "minorities" TBH) agency and heap all the agency and power on whites and males.

Ironically very white male chauvinist of you.

 

[Einherjar86]

What can I say, I'm a pig.

 

[CiG]

We all have our faults comrade.

 

[Einherjar86]

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Adult men cannot attain consent from non-inebriated female work partners actively seeking sex, but newborn boys do not not to give their consent before having their penises mutilated. Makes sense.

 

[CiG]

Coast Guard member flashes white power hand signal on TV.
The man shown in the background as a captain was being interviewed about Tropical Storm Florence was later removed from response duty, officials said.



When you catch a Nazi doing Nazi things. Got 'im.

 

[The Ozzman]

Giving a fuck about a baby boy's penis is pretty gay

 

[CiG]

So leftists are sperging out over the new Spider-Man game:

They Turned Spider-Man Into A Damn Cop And It Sucks.

Spider-Man's Take On Police Feels Out Of Touch.

Some Reddit responses that tickled me:

"Seeing the way the establishment reacts to real life masked do-gooders such as Antifa makes me think Spider-Man makes way more sense on the opposite side of the law, but I guess you can't expect corporate media to have the balls to call out the police like that."

"Late-game you start to take on the mayor's PMC army (who are, of course, entirely separate from the cops) and while fighting them Spider-Man will quip about them being 'fascist oppressors' and reference 'things being a little 1984'. in a game where, within the first 30 minutes, you hacked into a police domestic spying network so that you could track down 'thugs' to beat up."

On a side not, got the game recently and it's insane amounts of fun, haven't had the time to really get into the game properly but if you're a nerd and enjoyed the Arkham Batman games you'll probably like this one too.

 

[CiG]

Serena Williams losing to Naomi Osaka is apparently a result of the patriarchy and white supremacy.

 

[Dak]

In that situation, there's no way for you to gauge that accurately. So avoid it altogether.

Mike Pence approved this message.

 

[Dak]

Coast Guard member flashes white power hand signal on TV.
The man shown in the background as a captain was being interviewed about Tropical Storm Florence was later removed from response duty, officials said.

View attachment 15960

When you catch a Nazi doing Nazi things. Got 'im.

4chan meme symbol. My favorite quote:

"Whatever that symbol means, it doesn't reflect the Coast Guard and our core values," Zorn said. "It won't be tolerated."

WE DON'T KNOW THEREFORE IT WON'T BE TOLERATED.

We don't even know if it was intentional. I know one thing, the uproar about this is going to make it eventually definitely be a rightwing symbol. It's like liberals never learned any lessons in elementary school. I didn't even go to elementary school and learned the damn lesson. Zina Bash knows:

https://www.newsweek.com/zina-bash-...ite-supremacist-sign-during-kavanaugh-1110264
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...na-bashs-husband-says/?utm_term=.6ad5302b47ff

She maybe makes it.....there's an uproar, her husband is like SHE'S A FUCKING JEW AND A MEXICAN IMMIGRANT, and then she explicitly does it. Just for the lulz. Was a great week.

 

[CiG]

AMEN NORDIC WARRIOR 1488 PROTECT WHITE WOMEN.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

For years /pol/ has been half-heartedly trying to turn the rainbow flag into a white supremacy banner (i.e. unite a rainbow's constituents and you get pure white). Wish they'd succeed. I think the Richard Spencers and Patrick Littles of the world are hesitant because they're so obviously closeted homosexuals.

 

[Einherjar86]

Mike Pence approved this message.

Pence would prefer everyone avoid sex altogether and mate according to some medieval system like in The Handmaid's Tale. I never said sex should be avoided altogether. I said that sex should be avoided when professional standards are in place: (potential) employee/employer, student/teacher relationships, players/coaches, doctors/patients, etc.

It's really very simple, and not a legally hazardous situation at all if people are smart about it.