If Mort Divine ruled the world
- Thread starter Zephyrus
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viewerfromnihil
Vein-Marbled Tower
There's quite a nice monograph on this that is often on the first semester reading list for graduate students of history in the US:
tl;dr it's not and never really has been, and the only one's who haven't come to their senses on this is after the post-WWII era are ideologues.
Here's a douchey, flowery, over-the-top review I wrote on the book for a seminar after my second read through: https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-...ef=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0521357454
I don't want to get into semantics, however, and will agree that the historical discipline does approach history with that ideal, albeit without the rosy eyes and fluttering heart of ejaculating objective essence.
edit: I should add that I'm twisted enough that reading this in CC inspired me to pursue graduate studies.
EternalMetal
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- Mar 31, 2004
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Im guessing that implies that you grew up in an affluent household with college educated parents? I was also born white, and I had to make my own contacts in order to climb the ladder. All of my high power contacts are democratic liberals who sympathize with minorities, so im not sure if it would have made much of a difference if I were black. I was also the first person in even my extended family to go to college and actually graduate, so I had to figure it all out on my own. Forgive me if I am a bit bitter over the idea of 'white privilege'.
The #metoo movement is just exactly that though. Perhaps historically black men were more frequently called out, but with #metoo they don't only include white people, but people of power and influence. Every man is now fair game for a rape accusation, so if it wasn't in the back of your mind before, it should be now. But iirc you are married, and if your relationship is stable you shouldn't have to worry as much as us single guys. The first thing that women think about before a first date meetup is trying to avoid a rapey situation. I really don't see how being white somehow removes me from this idea of rape culture.
The narrative has shifted and has started to include white people for quite a while now. If this was the 90s id probably agree with you.
I guess the reason why im less outraged by this ad than some is that this narrative has already been perpetuated. You would have to be living under a rock not to have heard of #metoo and ideas about rape culture. Also commercials have featured the 'idiot man' for almost as long as I remember, so misandry in advertising has never been anything new. I agree with you that it makes no sense for a men's razor company to take this approach though. They could have said basically the same thing (real men respect women) without bringing rape into it, and for that I now understand why people are ticked off.
CiG
Coming of Age in the Milky Way
Sure, I agree, the advert really is just the same old thing and #MeToo is no secret, but I don't see anybody saying the same thing when backlash over something racist or misogynistic airs, even though misogyny and racism is nothing new. Not that I'm exactly offended or upset in any real sense, it's just a subject to shitpost about.
Mostly I'm just loling over how idiotic it is economically.
Mostly I'm just loling over how idiotic it is economically.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I did come from an affluent household, but not from college-educated parents. My parents grew up in rural upstate NY and my father started a company before I was born. By the time I came along, they were financially comfortable. But my dad dropped out of college after about one year, I think, and my mom never went.
That’s been my biggest challenge to overcome. All the academic connections and achievements I’ve made are my own. And every time I visit my hometown I’m resubmerged in “life beyond academia,” or whatever we want to call it.
My parents are smart, but not intellectuals. It makes for challenging conversations sometimes, but also productive ones. Can’t necessarily say the same thing for other members of my family. I see way too many “Islam is evil” and “liberals don’t know which bathroom to use” comments on Facebook to take seriously anyone who accuses me of living in a bubble.
But I am financially and culturally privileged (I think, anyway).
I am married, yes.
From what I can tell, those overwhelmingly accused of something tend to have checkered pasts, or have exhibited questionable behavior. That doesn’t make them automatically guilty of anything, of course. But I figure as long as I’m not an asshole irl, I don’t have much to worry about.
Perhaps, but I would say that doesn’t cancel the historical meaning and gravity that’s come to be attached to black masculinity. I definitely agree that our culture is nothing like what it used to be re. blacks accused of rape. But the threat of accusation is a very different experience for a black person than for a white one. Both are serious, but one taps into a different cultural narrative than the other.
CiG
Coming of Age in the Milky Way
No offense but that's pretty naive as well as rather ironically conservative. What next, abstinence until marriage? It's not being an asshole that makes men vulnerable to rape accusations, it's promiscuity.
Blurry_Dreams
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except that the ad is kinda implying that most men don't respect women
which is wierd, and horribly inaccurate
Einherjar86
Active Member
CiG
Coming of Age in the Milky Way
Einherjar86
Active Member
CiG
Coming of Age in the Milky Way
Dak
mentat
Blurry_Dreams
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Einherjar86
Active Member
Such a postmodernist.
I don't think what's inherent about relationships between human beings is really what's at issue here.
Ha, no. It was a joke. I'd be a hell of a lot more interesting if I were though. Just a straight white guy who studies American literature. How refreshing.
Blurry_Dreams
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Dak
mentat
The P&G ad was really just to get people saying "Gillette" a lot. But beyond that it suggested that men have a problem as a group. That's a dumb insinuation. Furthermore, it's a problem "relative" to women. Even more absurd.
The notion that respect must be earned predates post-modernist thought, and respect =/= being left alone, nor does it equal being treated well. You can respect your enemy and seek to do them harm.
CiG
Coming of Age in the Milky Way
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
of course not because that would be sexual harassment and one step away from putting your rape shoes on, no?
Bloopy
Active Member
The phrase has been used as an excuse for anything from minor bad behaviour which may lead to "things getting out of hand" or learning to use fists to solve problems, but also some really fucked up shit. Maybe there's a less sexist way to point that stuff out and a more honourable organisation to do it. But thwarting a genuinely evil person once isn't going to change their ways so I'm not seeing the leap to violent rapist.
Anyway, the inevitable video on toxic femininity to counteract the ad has arrived. Enjoy...
CiG
Coming of Age in the Milky Way
People are cunts, I see no reason why cuntish behavior needs to be made into a gender trait, regardless of which gender is the target.
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