If Mort Divine ruled the world

[CiG]

None of my amorous interactions with women began by me saying "hey good lookin, what's cookin?"

Happy to hear that.

 

[Einherjar86]

Men, on the other hand... that's a different story.

 

[CiG]

What do you mean? You're bisexual?

 

[Dak]

No one inherently deserves any respect.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

the ACLU disagrees with you

 

[Einherjar86]

No one inherently deserves any respect.

Such a postmodernist.

I don't think what's inherent about relationships between human beings is really what's at issue here.

What do you mean? You're bisexual?

Ha, no. It was a joke. I'd be a hell of a lot more interesting if I were though. Just a straight white guy who studies American literature. How refreshing.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

it was a pretty funny joke

 

[Dak]

Such a postmodernist.

I don't think what's inherent about relationships between human beings is really what's at issue here.

The P&G ad was really just to get people saying "Gillette" a lot. But beyond that it suggested that men have a problem as a group. That's a dumb insinuation. Furthermore, it's a problem "relative" to women. Even more absurd.

The notion that respect must be earned predates post-modernist thought, and respect =/= being left alone, nor does it equal being treated well. You can respect your enemy and seek to do them harm.

 

[CiG]

Ha, no. It was a joke. I'd be a hell of a lot more interesting if I were though. Just a straight white guy who studies American literature. How refreshing.

I have no idea why I didn't take that as a joke haha.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

None of my amorous interactions with women began by me saying "hey good lookin, what's cookin?"

of course not because that would be sexual harassment and one step away from putting your rape shoes on, no?

 

[Bloopy]

The advert repeats the "boys will be boys" narrative which implies that what it means to be a boy is to be a violent rapist or something. That advert is an example of casual misandry.

The phrase has been used as an excuse for anything from minor bad behaviour which may lead to "things getting out of hand" or learning to use fists to solve problems, but also some really fucked up shit. Maybe there's a less sexist way to point that stuff out and a more honourable organisation to do it. But thwarting a genuinely evil person once isn't going to change their ways so I'm not seeing the leap to violent rapist.

Anyway, the inevitable video on toxic femininity to counteract the ad has arrived. Enjoy...

 

[CiG]

People are cunts, I see no reason why cuntish behavior needs to be made into a gender trait, regardless of which gender is the target.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

@Bloopy

from what i remember "boy will be boys" is usually just used as a way of allowing "masculine" guys to do some kind of specific thing that most females would never do in a million years, like egging a house or maybe roughhousing of something
it's usually not used to excuse "fucked up shit" behavior

 

[Einherjar86]

The notion that respect must be earned predates post-modernist thought, and respect =/= being left alone, nor does it equal being treated well. You can respect your enemy and seek to do them harm.

It's incumbent on you to clarify your terms here. There are a lot of assumptions packed into these statements--first and foremost what you mean by "respect." You can respect something about your enemy and seek to do them harm; but clearly what you respect isn't the fact that your enemy is a living person who feels pain. Plenty of ethicists would argue that, at the very least, acknowledging that another person feels pain establishes grounds for respect--perhaps not respect for that person's values or beliefs, but respect for their existence.

Also, the notion that respect must be earned might predate the twentieth century, but I think there's a sleight of hand there in that it implies certain actions or behaviors are inherently deserving of respect. If no one's inherently deserving of respect, is any act inherently deserving of respect? I just think it's a more complicated concept than you presented.

EDIT: I feel a responsibility to share this:

https://us.pg.com/structure-and-gov...9gR4Te5MWxglQ3gAeaVJp0uYvBxV5Pj1oPUUvZR1F56Tc

and this comment from a friend:

"Gillette is owned by Procter and Gamble. A little bit of googling reveals that its board of directors includes several GOP donors, including at least one GOP politician. Gillette's exercise in "woke" branding is based on a calculation of profitability. If you like Gillette razors, cool. As it happens, so do I. But don't be fooled: these people don't give a fuck about you."

 

[Bloopy]

from what i remember "boy will be boys" is usually just used as a way of allowing "masculine" guys to do some kind of specific thing that most females would never do in a million years, like egging a house or maybe roughhousing of something
it's usually not used to excuse "fucked up shit" behavior

Yeah, not usually, more like very occasionally at most. Though I only looked at a few pages about the phrase yesterday before I found this:

https://www.freetobekids.com/blogs/news/its-time-to-retire-the-phrase-boys-will-be-boys-forever

Last year we heard from a mama whose daughter was out on the playground for recess one day when three boys held her down on the slide. Two sat on her legs, and a third held her from behind by the neck of her dress and slammed her head down twice. Another stabbed her in the eye with a stick multiple times. There was blood. This mama told us, “We are very lucky that my daughter's eye was fine, but the three puncture wounds on her eyelid were between a 1/4 inch and 1/8th of an inch from puncturing her actual eye.” Mama called the school. “We have to do better than this, we have to talk about this behavior,” she said. She was fed the typical lines: they didn't know what they were doing. It was typical play that got momentarily inappropriate. And yes, you guessed it: "Boys will be boys."

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

@Einherjar86
respecting a person's values or beliefs [or battle-tactics] is a completely separate thing from respecting their existence
people "respecting their enemies" has been a thing in pop-culture since Sherlock Holmes and Professor Moriarty

i thought the whole fucking world already knew that Gillette was owned by proctor and gamble

@Bloopy
OMFG
that article is fucked up

 

[Dak]

It's incumbent on you to clarify your terms here. There are a lot of assumptions packed into these statements--first and foremost what you mean by "respect." You can respect something about your enemy and seek to do them harm; but clearly what you respect isn't the fact that your enemy is a living person who feels pain. Plenty of ethicists would argue that, at the very least, acknowledging that another person feels pain establishes grounds for respect--perhaps not respect for that person's values or beliefs, but respect for their existence.

Also, the notion that respect must be earned might predate the twentieth century, but I think there's a sleight of hand there in that it implies certain actions or behaviors are inherently deserving of respect. If no one's inherently deserving of respect, is any act inherently deserving of respect? I just think it's a more complicated concept than you presented.

The first Oxford definition of respect is perfectly acceptable:
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/respect_1

1. a feeling of admiration for someone or something because of their good qualities or achievements

2. polite behavior toward or care for someone or something that you think is important

The latter definition isn't a very good one, because it can be at odds with the first. But the tie between the two is the "good qualities/achievements" and "importance". Simply being an animate object in the species is a such low bar for "achievement" and "importance" that it would render them meaningless. It's true that what we attach significance to beyond that to determine importance or achievement is going to be laden with value judgments, so in that sense no, nothing is inherently deserving of respect.

Pain in particular seems like a terrible point of focus to establish anything other than certain physical systems (e.g., nervous system).

If you like Gillette razors, cool. As it happens, so do I. But don't be fooled: these people don't give a fuck about you."

Bingo.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Blurry_Dreams is right historically-speaking, it's just that the term has taken on new meaning in recent years to conflate and young male rowdiness with rape and murder. That stabbing story sounds like total horseshit and the kind of anonymous victim-seeking that infests blogs, unless "recess" means an incredibly poor high school where violent crime is common. And fwiw I hate all meanings of "boys will be boys", I hated vandalistic rowdy kids in elementary school and I don't mind seeing them pumped with pharmaceuticals and mentally castrated today. There are many elements of the male sex that have no place in civil society; people should just admit that other negative traits can and should be expunged from the female sex, as well as all various groups of ethnicities, rather than committing clear demographic-pandering.

 

[Einherjar86]

Pain in particular seems like a terrible point of focus to establish anything other than certain physical systems (e.g., nervous system).

Why do you feel that way? I'd think you would be particularly keen on pain as a point of establishment for some kind of intercorporeal ethics, seeing as it connects intimately to subjective experience.

Also, you're in a minority when it comes to the importance of pain. That tends to be a central point in debates within ethical philosophy.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

There are many elements of the male sex that have no place in civil society

lmao