If Mort Divine ruled the world

[Dak]

It's as bullshit as fear over global warming. Yeah AI is getting better, yeah sea levels are rising, no there isn't any point of doing anything until problems actually foment. Doubling the already ridiculous federal budget now because AI may end all low-end service jobs in 100 years is insanity. The idea that capitalism is a system that needs to be saved at all costs is just as bullshit. Rather than empower large corporations, who will be the only ones able to afford paying workers under a UBI system, just increase food stamps and housing as needed. Private-option socialized medicine is painful enough; private-option socialized employment will be the end of personal agency. As a borderline ancap I'd prefer with Sanders' 70s desire of nationalizing everything over this eternal corporate dick-sucking.

This is incoherent. It's not about saving capitalism, it's about changing the way the poor are financially managed at the federal level, as those ranks grow due to automation. I agree it's probably not needed now but that's not how politics work. #1: The UBI probably won't make it through Congress. #2: "Free College" or "Reparations" would be more likely to make it through, and both would also be disastrously expensive, and the former would be 110% wasteful, and the latter would further stoke divisions and resentment and be only one step removed from a UBI anyway. There's no Ron Paul riding in on a white horse, and even if one did he'd be stuck at ~3% of the vote.

Also "doesn't want to empower large corporations" but also would prefere empowering the largest corporation possibly on the planet (FedGov).

Which popularly available economists, btw? A lot of the mainline left-leaning ones like Larry Summers and Krugman reject the MMT stuff that Yang supports, let alone non-Kenyesians. It's guys like Tucker Carlson that like to act as if automation is ending the world as we know it, not real economists.

Scott Sumner, Tyler Cowen, Bryan Caplan, etc. Even Krugman on occassion. People who like Yang may have tried to use MMT for some rationale, but MMT is retarded and I haven't heard Yang mention it yet.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I'm totally against free college as well, but the fact that much of Europe can more or less fund it while virtually no one has managed to put UBI into practice tells me that the former is at least somewhat potentially affordable.

At least democratic governments are somewhat beholden to their constituents. I'll take a public monopoly over a private one that can arbitrarily seek 30% profit margins.

 

[Dak]

I'm totally against free college as well, but the fact that much of Europe can more or less fund it while virtually no one has managed to put UBI into practice tells me that the former is at least somewhat potentially affordable.

At least democratic governments are somewhat beholden to their constituents. I'll take a public monopoly over a private one that can arbitrarily seek 30% profit margins.

I don't see an ancapism in your statements, and what private monopoly are you talking about re:UBI?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't see an ancapism in your statements, and what private monopoly are you talking about re:UBI?

I'm talking about the gradual centralization of businesses since FDR. UBI is effectively the government (i.e. taxpayer) paying the wages that massive-scale low-end employers (retailers, fast food) are in theory supposed to pay their workers. You further erode the ability of small businesses and contractors to compete in the marketplace, while taking a massive chunk of the entire economy, trillions of dollars a year, and putting it directly into the control of the government.

 

[Dak]

I'm talking about the gradual centralization of businesses since FDR. UBI is effectively the government (i.e. taxpayer) paying the wages that massive-scale low-end employers (retailers, fast food) are in theory supposed to pay their workers. You further erode the ability of small businesses and contractors to compete in the marketplace, while taking a massive chunk of the entire economy, trillions of dollars a year, and putting it directly into the control of the government.

I'm willing to listen to how you see UBI further eroding the ability for small businesses and especially contractors to compete.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I'm willing to listen to how you see UBI further eroding the ability for small businesses and especially contractors to compete.

UBI has to be paid for by higher taxes, which increase the cost of doing business and adds more pressure to small businesses than large ones which can hold the burden. UBI is supposed to pay the minimum amount needed to live; by the current $12k/yr proposal, it would still pay $3k/yr less than a person making minimum wage, 40hrs a week 52 weeks an hour. For many jobs, the UBI-wage would probably be closer $6k/yr when most people don't literally make minimum wage, and when many such workers do multiple part-time jobs instead of a single M-F 9-5. So in practice, UBI subsidizes two-thirds of a Walmart's wages. At least some Walmart employees may realize that working full-time for just the remaining third of their income is a bad deal, but Walmart still needs workers. Therefore, because one of the most expensive components of running a business (wages) has been paid for by one of the most expensive and consumption-slowing taxes (a VAT), it is within Walmart's power to raise wages and/or reduce working hours to maintain employment. Most small businesses would be crippled by that. UBI is the ultimate corporate erotic fantasy.

 

[Blurry_Dreams]

UBI wouldn't work unless the costs of buying stuff went down
like a four-bedroom house built 20 years from now costing a straight-up less-number-of-dollars than an identical house built right now
also
the riches 10% would have to lose most of their money

 

[CiG]

Jim Jefferies did an interview with notorious Australian zionist activist, tied him to the alt-right in the segment and then chopped up the interview to paint a specific picture. Dude had a feeling it would happen so he secretly recorded the whole interview.

Jefferies is currently in meltdown mode.

 

[Dak]

UBI has to be paid for by higher taxes, which increase the cost of doing business and adds more pressure to small businesses than large ones which can hold the burden. UBI is supposed to pay the minimum amount needed to live; by the current $12k/yr proposal, it would still pay $3k/yr less than a person making minimum wage, 40hrs a week 52 weeks an hour. For many jobs, the UBI-wage would probably be closer $6k/yr when most people don't literally make minimum wage, and when many such workers do multiple part-time jobs instead of a single M-F 9-5. So in practice, UBI subsidizes two-thirds of a Walmart's wages. At least some Walmart employees may realize that working full-time for just the remaining third of their income is a bad deal, but Walmart still needs workers. Therefore, because one of the most expensive components of running a business (wages) has been paid for by one of the most expensive and consumption-slowing taxes (a VAT), it is within Walmart's power to raise wages and/or reduce working hours to maintain employment. Most small businesses would be crippled by that. UBI is the ultimate corporate erotic fantasy.

I'll try and reply to this this weekend.

 

[jimmy101]

Jim Jefferies did an interview with notorious Australian zionist activist, tied him to the alt-right in the segment and then chopped up the interview to paint a specific picture. Dude had a feeling it would happen so he secretly recorded the whole interview.

Jefferies is currently in meltdown mode.

Tried searching for Jefferies' video but can't find it. Reckon he would have taken it down?

 

[CiG]

Tried searching for Jefferies' video but can't find it. Reckon he would have taken it down?

The whole segment? Nah it should definitely still be up: https://twitter.com/jefferiesshow/status/1108481726089560064

 

[jimmy101]

Hope the cunt gets his show axed.

 

[rms]

all you needed to know about Jeffries:



spoiler: he likes the taste of his own semen

 

[CiG]

Fuck I remember that shit, I felt all of Patrice's pain and disgust and confusion when I listened to that shit.

 

[Dak]

UBI has to be paid for by higher taxes, which increase the cost of doing business and adds more pressure to small businesses than large ones which can hold the burden. UBI is supposed to pay the minimum amount needed to live; by the current $12k/yr proposal, it would still pay $3k/yr less than a person making minimum wage, 40hrs a week 52 weeks an hour. For many jobs, the UBI-wage would probably be closer $6k/yr when most people don't literally make minimum wage, and when many such workers do multiple part-time jobs instead of a single M-F 9-5. So in practice, UBI subsidizes two-thirds of a Walmart's wages. At least some Walmart employees may realize that working full-time for just the remaining third of their income is a bad deal, but Walmart still needs workers. Therefore, because one of the most expensive components of running a business (wages) has been paid for by one of the most expensive and consumption-slowing taxes (a VAT), it is within Walmart's power to raise wages and/or reduce working hours to maintain employment. Most small businesses would be crippled by that. UBI is the ultimate corporate erotic fantasy.

Ok. So first the "Freedom Dividend" isn't supposed to provide enough to live on. It's just extra cushion. Yes, it "subsidizes" Walmart, but then it subsidizes all businesses from that perspective.

The floated VAT is supposed to be specifically on "tech companies," ie, taxing the FAANGs. Is that going to make it more difficult for their competitors? Possibly, depending on how it's implemented. Do we expect some American based competitor that isn't Walmart to take on Amazon in the current situation? Not in the foreseeable future.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Ok. So first the "Freedom Dividend" isn't supposed to provide enough to live on. It's just extra cushion. Yes, it "subsidizes" Walmart, but then it subsidizes all businesses from that perspective.

The floated VAT is supposed to be specifically on "tech companies," ie, taxing the FAANGs. Is that going to make it more difficult for their competitors? Possibly, depending on how it's implemented. Do we expect some American based competitor that isn't Walmart to take on Amazon in the current situation? Not in the foreseeable future.

I don't see where Yang proposes to apply the VAT only to tech giants, but assuming that to be true, I guess that makes sense logistically: specifically tax efficient businesses that circumvent the labor cost issue, subsidize primitive business models that rely heavily on low-skill labor, protect fragile human egos from technology. Sounds like the most backwards proposal in American history though.

 

[CiG]

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I almost didn't get it. "Mexican" is such a common shorthand for "brown American" that the dictionaries should just be updated tbqh

 

[CiG]

South America should be renamed "Mexico Land."

 

[HamburgerBoy]

https://twitter.com/caitymcollins/status/1113583740234682374
#Yaaaaas