If Mort Divine ruled the world

[Onder]

There are probably phases to this though. Maybe early phase experimenting doesn't require socialization, but at some point people need to experience their identity within a social situation.

Yeah I think so.

But I mean, I never considered masturbation (i.e. how people masturbate at home) to be part of someone's identity..?

 

[CiG]

I didn't say masturbation was part of someone's identity.

Maybe early phase experimenting doesn't require socialization, but at some point people need to experience their identity within a social situation.

Sure. When I said "privacy of the home" I assumed people understood that this would involve social interaction with the child's family, but I guess Onder assumes kids live at home alone or something lmao.

Beauty pageants have sexualized children for much longer than pride parades have. It makes me uncomfortable that people are so eager to leap on the use of children in these parades, but somehow beauty pageants just pass us by unremarked.

Both are gross.

 

[Onder]

I didn't say masturbation was part of someone's identity.

You said it's a big part of identity experimentation, ok.

 

[CiG]

What you masturbate to is relevant to identity, not that we masturbate in the first place. Similarly, eating is how we can explore cultures, that's not the same as saying eating food is a part of culture, it's what food we eat and how that is relevant to cultural identity.

 

[Onder]

What you masturbate to is relevant to identity, not that we masturbate in the first place. Similarly, eating is how we can explore cultures, that's not the same as saying eating food is a part of culture, it's what food we eat and how that is relevant to cultural identity.

Well I sure don't want the things I masturbate to to be part of my identity. It's mostly retarded Russian girls trying to make some cash in California.

 

[CiG]

Well I sure don't want the things I masturbate to to be part of my identity. It's mostly retarded Russian girls trying to make some cash in California.

Sounds pretty typically heterosexual lol.

 

[Funerary_Doom]

Whoa I guess I wasn’t considering the pride parades. I guess what I’m thinking about is like... you know how some kids’ Instagram becomes popular? I don’t think all those people who follow said kid are child predators. Maybe it’s just a bunch of adults who just think the kid is adorable.

Maybe a bit naive, but I don’t always think instances where children are modeling or whatever (in pageants or in parades) to be sexual unless they are dressed in a provocative way or something. Suppose it depends, and it’s hard to say what’s appropriate and what’s not unless looking at something specific. All girls will put on makeup before they are adults and play dress up for fun. Especially now, where they can record and take pictures and stuff. And adults I feel are always going to admire kids, and it’s not always in a sexual way. Like, looking at prom pictures or something. It’s sorta amazement like wow these little people are actually going to replace us, type amazement.

I suppose I don’t know enough about the beauty pageant and pride parade industries in general to speak on them. Was just saying that adults who’ve formed some sort of attachment to kids like seeing them grow

 

[Einherjar86]

In what I'm sure will be an unpopular opinion, I'll just say that beauty pageants are far more guilty of sexualizing children than pride parades are. Children can attend pride parades 100% without it being sexual, because expressing support for the LGBTQ community isn't a sexual act in the slightest. I can see how people might view children dancing as a kind of sexualization, but I don't think that's the only possibility.

I'm not talking here about the young trans child who dances in clubs. That's a more complicated scenario and more difficult to dissociate from sexuality, for sure.

Beauty pageants are, in their very form and function, about idealizing and marketing female beauty standards that are wrapped up in sexual expectations. Very different than pride parades.

 

[Dak]

Beauty pageants are more about sexuality than are parades about the types of sex people like to have. Okay.

 

[Einherjar86]

Okay. Glad it's settled.

 

[Dak]

I just figured I could eliminate 3 paragraphs of mental gymnastics to state the approved opinion concisely in one sentence. You could do that as well. This is why French intellectuals after Bastiat are so passé.

 

[CiG]

Maybe a bit naive, but I don’t always think instances where children are modeling or whatever (in pageants or in parades) to be sexual unless they are dressed in a provocative way or something.

Yeah I don't think all instances of kids modelling are sexual, usually just when it's done provocatively like you say here.

I'll just say that beauty pageants are far more guilty of sexualizing children than pride parades are.

I agree. Just on number of years both things have existed alone, beauty pageants are worse for it. Especially if you consider that the type of "beauty" these kids are being measured by, and are conforming to in their attire, is entirely an adult one.

I'm not talking here about the young trans child who dances in clubs. That's a more complicated scenario and more difficult to dissociate from sexuality, for sure.

They're not complicated, they're just disgusting.

 

[Dak]

Just on number of years both things have existed alone, beauty pageants are worse for it. Especially if you consider that the type of "beauty" these kids are being measured by, and are conforming to in their attire, is entirely an adult one.

What is the consistent kid version of beauty? (And who cares what kids fucking think?)

https://www.takimag.com/article/ta_nehisi_coates_all_is_fog_steve_sailer/#.XQrNef11TE0.twitter

What exactly is the secret of Ta-Nehisi’s success? Why has he vaulted over more talented black intellectuals such as John McWhorter and Thomas Chatterton Williams (who have both been unloading on Coates lately)?

It’s definitely not his erudition. McWhorter scoffed recently:

The elevation of that dorm-lounge performance art as serious thought is a kind of soft bigotry, which is as nauseating as it is unintended.

Pat is, unless I'm somehow mistaken, a TNC apologist, while I have consistently agreed with McWhorter.

 

[CiG]

What is the consistent kid version of beauty?

Innocence. We've all seen family photos of kids, baby pictures and so on. Throwing lipstick, fake teeth and high heels on a little girl is the kind of beautification adults impose on each other.

(And who cares what kids fucking think?)

?

 

[Einherjar86]

I just figured I could eliminate 3 paragraphs of mental gymnastics to state the approved opinion concisely in one sentence. You could do that as well. This is why French intellectuals after Bastiat are so passé.

Haha, wow so passive aggressive...

Pat is, unless I'm somehow mistaken, a TNC apologist, while I have consistently agreed with McWhorter.

 

[Dak]

Haha, wow so passive aggressive...

Yeah, I've never given such an opinion before .

 

[Einherjar86]

Well, not so passive-aggressively sweet pea...

 

[Dak]

Maybe not, but I think I've been pretty straight forward as to my perspective that African Americans were wrongfully brought to the US/treated, but that also the victim mentality won't help them move forward and neither will "reparations" or "ethnic masochism" or any other liberal feelgood political panacea. Apologies don't fix the past and have little informative value on the future.

 

[CiG]

I disagree, I fully support the Democrats paying reparations to the descendants of slaves.

 

[Einherjar86]

Maybe not, but I think I've been pretty straight forward as to my perspective that African Americans were wrongfully brought to the US/treated, but that also the victim mentality won't help them move forward and neither will "reparations" or "ethnic masochism" or any other liberal feelgood political panacea. Apologies don't fix the past and have little informative value on the future.

Yes, you have been.

I find Coates's writing to be provocative and brilliant, and his interpretations compelling. I also find McWhorter to be measured, perceptive, and an enviable intellectual. I think the difference between us is that I don't see these two things as mutually exclusive.