If Mort Divine ruled the world

[HamburgerBoy]

True, I compete with Chinese and Indian H1B visa holders instead (and don't really have an issue with that). I remember when I was a young kid (circa 2000) we lived in a house with a big lawn, and we had this Scottish guy (accent and all) as our yardman, who'd spend a good couple hours a week taking care of things. More of a jolly Santa-like figure than a Groundskeeper Willie. The idea of a solo white dude making a decent living just doing lawn work is so foreign just one generation later.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

in·va·sion | \ in-ˈvā-zhən
\
Definition of invasion

1 : an act of invading

in·vade | \ in-ˈvād
\
invaded; invading
Definition of invade

transitive verb
1 : to enter for conquest or plunder
2 : to encroach upon : infringe

how dare you use the proper definition of the word here, you fear mongering bigot!

 

[Einherjar86]

in·va·sion | \ in-ˈvā-zhən
\
Definition of invasion

1 : an act of invading

in·vade | \ in-ˈvād
\
invaded; invading
Definition of invade

transitive verb
1 : to enter for conquest or plunder
2 : to encroach upon : infringe

You actually think this is what's happening? And I'm the one dissociated from reality.

Those kids and pregnant women man, such a threat.

 

[CiG]

Depends how you define threat. Nobody is saying they're charging border agents with scimitars.

 

[Einherjar86]

To define their presence as a threat is a purely rhetorical gesture. It inflates homegrown anxieties and elides the social opportunities of working with caravans to admit them peacefully and humanely.

There is no invasion and no threat in any viable sense of the word. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem though, and one that can't be solved by simply admitting those in the caravans without any managerial process involved.

 

[CiG]

That's not a severely privileged take or anything.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

That's not a severely privileged take or anything.

...while he sips on a Lemon Drop in Savannah

 

[Einherjar86]

That's not a severely privileged take or anything.

I like how when I start getting close to the heart of the matter, the sound of my privilege drowns out the content of my comments. What am I supposed to say to this? It is a privileged position. But I don't buy for one second that you're somehow more equipped to speak on this matter than I am.

 

[CiG]

What a megalomaniacal response, holy shit. The heart of the matter? I'm merely pointing out that you don't perceive these things as threats because it's not your community being impacted, nor is it your profession. I on the other hand very much have to consider immigration (both legal and illegal) in the context of existential threat. I'm a self-employed contractor, I can be undercut by cheap labour you fucking dunce.

 

[Einherjar86]

What a megalomaniacal response, holy shit. The heart of the matter? I'm merely pointing out that you don't perceive these things as threats because it's not your community being impacted, nor is it your profession. I on the other hand very much have to consider immigration (both legal and illegal) in the context of existential threat. I'm a self-employed contractor, I can be undercut by cheap labour you fucking dunce.

See, this I can actually respond to.

My community actually is being impacted. I've already mentioned that I have colleagues whose lives have been shaken by Trump's immigration policies. I have colleagues who are Iranian, South/Central American, and Asian. I'm not alienated from what's happening, although it's a different dimension than what's happening at the border. Most of my knowledge about that comes from scholarship and what I've heard from my colleagues.

Speaking of muh privilege, my wife and I had an amazing and philosophically traumatizing experience in a Savannah bar.

We met this shrimper and who we thought was his wife (turned out to be his ex-girlfriend--guess they're both single now and maybe needed a good fuck? who knows), and my wife struck up a conversation. They were nice, and so we bought them a round. This guy was all Georgia, shirt unbuttoned and white chest hair hanging out, clearly drunk and with a ridiculous accent. He was fun and nice to talk to, and we enjoy meeting people.

Anyway, eventually he starts talking about racism in America (unprovoked by me--I don't start on politics with total strangers), and he says that what sticks in his craw is that Native Americans get the short shrift when it comes to talks about racism. I tried to make a neutral comment about how discussions on racism need to be inclusive, and that dealing with the suffering of different groups is complicated... at which point he cut me off and said, "It's not complicated, it's simple. You wanna know how I know that?"

He looks from me to my wife and back to me. "You want me to tell you how I know that?"

So I nod and say "well sure!"

Shrimper: "Guys, let me tell you: I was visited by my creator. It wudn't a burnin' bush, or a boomin' voice. It was... a conversation. And you know what he said to me? He told me, Gary--you need to do somethin' about this shit. That's what he said. And it dudn't matter what religion you are. You think diff'rent religions all got diff'rent creators?"

At this point he pauses, and we realize he's asking us. I was on the verge of saying I don't think there is a creator, but thankfully my wife jumps in and says, "Well, I haven't been visited, so I can't say!"

Shrimper: "Well, I have. And I know. And you know wut? Our creator made us in his image. You know that?"


Anyway, this went on for about fifteen minutes before I told him we had to meet friends, and we got the fuck out of there. Dude thought he was mainlining the secret truth of the universe.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

I'm merely pointing out that you don't perceive these things as threats because it's not your community being impacted, nor is it your profession

this pretty much explains about 99% of the topics einherder touches on. But i love watching these "gated community citizens" comment on things that they evidently know nothing of and things that will never effect their lives in any way.

 

[CiG]

See, this I can actually respond to.

My community actually is being impacted. I've already mentioned that I have colleagues whose lives have been shaken by Trump's immigration policies. I have colleagues who are Iranian, South/Central American, and Asian. I'm not alienated from what's happening, although it's a different dimension than what's happening at the border. Most of my knowledge about that comes from scholarship and what I've heard from my colleagues.

Might be easier for me if you're less vague, what happened? Can they no longer work in the US? Did they return to their country of origin for a holiday and have trouble getting back in to the US?

Not really sure how that would be similar to what poor and working class citizens go through when a huge influx of low/unskilled labourers pour into their communities and make an already difficult situation even worse for them. That's not even taking into consideration all the new gang activity that spikes with large influxes of poverty-level immigration, let alone the negative impacts of specifically illegal immigration.

 

[Einherjar86]

Might be easier for me if you're less vague, what happened? Can they no longer work in the US? Did they return to their country of origin for a holiday and have trouble getting back in to the US?

Yes to both, and another hasn't been able to visit family overseas in the Middle East.

This also has been happening to undergrads at a greater scale than the grad level. A lot of Middle Eastern students have been deported despite being accepted to American colleges.

Not really sure how that would be similar to what poor and working class citizens go through when a huge influx of low/unskilled labourers pour into their communities and make an already difficult situation even worse for them. That's not even taking into consideration all the new gang activity that spikes with large influxes of poverty-level immigration, let alone the negative impacts of specifically illegal immigration.

That's why, as I said, simply admitting everyone isn't the answer. There are consequences to accepting migrants. As a country, the U.S. doesn't want to deal with those consequences and so it's closing its doors.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

fwiw, for a completely random anecdote, I do know that Gabe Newell (who is relatively non-political and a billionaire) has mentioned that Valve lost a few Iranian engineers who were overseas at the time of Trump's "Muslim ban". (Funny trivia tidbit: the original programmer behind the original Final Fantasy games was an Iranian, despite Japanese companies being generally opposed to foreign workers; ancient mathematical Persian blood at work.) But it's really only the "Muslim ban" countries where I've heard of legitimate workers getting fucked over, and the majority of those countries are not exactly sending their best. If Ein's colleagues have been shaken by deportations of Central Americans, it's because they had to hire new maids at double the rates. Trump, if anything, has been very supportive of legitimate visa workers.

You actually think this is what's happening? And I'm the one dissociated from reality.

Those kids and pregnant women man, such a threat.

They've absolutely "encroach[ed] upon : infringe[d]" American soil. The plunder bit is a little more abstract in that they plunder social services via the law rather than via horseback riding Mongols, but uneducated women and children are absolutely a threat to public coffers, more so than the uneducated men who (at least on average) depend less on the government and work more productive jobs.

the social opportunities of working with caravans

lmao

 

[Einherjar86]

If Ein's colleagues have been shaken by deportations of Central Americans, it's because they had to hire new maids at double the rates. Trump, if anything, has been very supportive of legitimate visa workers.

omg, you think my colleagues have maids.

You guys think all academics make six figures or something?

They've absolutely "encroach[ed] upon : infringe[d]" American soil. The plunder bit is a little more abstract in that they plunder social services via the law rather than via horseback riding Mongols, but uneducated women and children are absolutely a threat to public coffers, more so than the uneducated men who (at least on average) depend less on the government and work more productive jobs.

Definitions don't work this way. "Invade" carries different connotations than "encroach" and "infringe." When you use words, you have to consider their implications.

You prefer to think of language like it's math, i.e. "invade = infringe." That's simply not how it works at all.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The caravans come here in large, consciously-formed waves, and their occupants come here to stay. That's plenty 'invasion' to me. It's not like Juanita and her 10000 co-invaders drunkenly stumble onto American soil, say "Whoopsie, wrong room!" and then return back to their side.

 

[Einherjar86]

The caravans come here in large, consciously-formed waves, and their occupants come here to stay. That's plenty 'invasion' to me. It's not like Juanita and her 10000 co-invaders drunkenly stumble onto American soil, say "Whoopsie, wrong room!" and then return back to their side.

They come seeking asylum. That's not a hostile takeover, it's a cry for help--and it's a far cry from "barbarians at the gates."

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Let them cry



Wonder if the MSM will report this one. I'm not sure if the "black Sanders supporter" claim is true, from what I can tell "Black Guns Matter" seems to be adopted more by the right anyways, but still, it's some pasty white dude assaulting a black guy (who seems to want to deescalate), not the best optics for any campaign.

 

[CiG]

Terrible optics considering the MSM has been bringing up the "#BernieBros are toxic white male supporters" narrative recently.

 

[Einherjar86]

Let them cry

I mean, I knew this is where we'd eventually end up; but the point is that invaders don't show up crying at the door begging to be let in--or even sneak in, accept work from eager American businesses (whose owners aren't ignorant to what's going on), and quietly go about their lives.

So I say again, no invasion. My point was about your word choice, not whether there are people coming to the southern border. There certainly are, a lot of them; and something needs to be done other than simply letting everyone in without a process or institution in place. Calling it an invasion is less a semantically accurate statement than a rhetorically charged statement. It achieves its linguistic force through its connotative suggestions, not through what it denotes.