If Mort Divine ruled the world

As far as my last sentence, I'm referring to the tendency of yourself or others to claim the lack of a clear point of demarcation means there's no differences whatsoever, or at least no important distinctions to be made or capable of being made.

EG: No clear point of demarcation therefore this picture is one solid color.

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I think that's an inaccurate articulation of my point. I wouldn't argue that because we can't pin down the boundary between interior experience and language means there's no difference between the two. I would say that the inability to pin down the boundary means we can't assume them to operate independently of each other. And it's my stance that they don't operate independently of each other.

A rejoinder might be that you could make this case for anything, e.g. that doors don't operate independently of someone opening or closing them (and there are social theorists who might say that the door and the opener are secondary to the act of opening--but that's beside the point). In the case of language and interior experience, however, we're talking about two operations that occur within the human brain. I'm not willing to concede that there are definitely interior experiences that are wholly independent of language because, I would say, there is no interior experience so immediate and fundamental as to escape being altered by language ("Am I sick?" "Am I said?" "Do I have an ulcer?" "I love you so much it hurts." "I'm confused." "This is weird.").

William S. Burroughs wrote about language being a viral infection. He was being hyperbolic, but in some ways he's right.
 
I would say, there is no interior experience so immediate and fundamental as to escape being altered by language ("Am I sick?" "Am I said?" "Do I have an ulcer?" "I love you so much it hurts." "I'm confused." "This is weird.").

Altered vs touched is likely to be the issue. Interestingly enough one treatment in therapy is getting people to *not* alter experiences, and just let them be, as there's no benefit to altering them or they struggle with beneficial alterations.
 
Dr Seuss was a fellow traveler of FDR's American-Bolshevik retinue who played a role in the Brown Scare as warmonger propagandist, and I fully welcome his cancellation. That boomer Republicans defend his filth while oblivious to much more significant goings-on is all the more evidence that the so-called American Right needs to be censored and persecuted themselves to understand what the future holds.
 
Dr Seuss was a fellow traveler of FDR's American-Bolshevik retinue who played a role in the Brown Scare as warmonger propagandist, and I fully welcome his cancellation. That boomer Republicans defend his filth while oblivious to much more significant goings-on is all the more evidence that the so-called American Right needs to be censored and persecuted themselves to understand what the future holds.
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The fact that Dr Seuss produced pro-WW2 works at a time when American isolationists were being politically persecuted by communists embedded within the government isn't disputed, as far as I'm aware.

Mort-related:

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Do you dispute the fact that Samuel Dickstein was a paid agent of the NKVD and the co-founder of the persecutory body which specifically targeted the right-wing? It only turned anti-commie after tankie-in-chief FDR died and Dickstein retired months later. The Ware Group, the Perlo Group, and countless others were operating critical portions of the US government under FDR's tenure. After many of the spies mysteriously died of heart attacks and fell out of buildings simultaneously, Harry Truman did the dirty work to ensure that the depth of communist infiltration under FDR was hidden as much as possible, all the while communist spies continued to operate culminating in the loss of nuclear secrets. By contrast, Hugh S Johnson was basically as economically managerial as anyone in FDR's early crowd and led the very influential National Recovery Administration, yet he was ousted by 1934 for merely saying a couple flattering things about Mussolini. I don't see how it gets any more embedded than that.

"Conspiracy theory" is laughable too when it was Dickstein who promoted the completely unfounded and ridiculous Business Plot conspiracy, one which has absolutely zero evidence backing its existence beyond the claim by an decrepit general that a man in sunglasses named Jack approached him one day and said "Hey kid, wanna coup an American president?".
 
Whether it's true or not it clearly didn't amount to much in the long run considering the American right thinks anybody left of Milton Friedman is a communist. Obama spent most of his political capital passing the ACA, socialism let alone communism has no power in the US.
 
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Just learned that the French teacher decapitated by a muzzie over allegedly displaying drawings of Mohammad in fact never displayed any such images, and that a student made the whole thing up as an excuse to explain a suspension for truancy, lmao, the blood libel on the white race marches on.

Whether it's true or not it clearly didn't amount to much in the long run considering the American right thinks anybody left of Milton Friedman is a communist.

FDR's term was the most consequential of any president's in our history, it amounted to a completely new era in American politics. The expansion of government regulation under his communist-friendly term is responsible for everything from the war on drugs to the MIC to the runaway administrative state. His Stalin-friendly foreign policy was instrumental in ensuring that half of the world turned to communism in one form or another. His very last diplomatic act was in petitioning the king of Saudi Arabia to support the creation of Israel, which would of course come into being a few years later under his successor.

'American right' is in and of itself a bit of an oxymoron anyways, split between corporate dupes and defense contractor whores, with only a very tiny handful of contemporary (and largely powerless) exceptions like Rand Paul and Thomas Massie. Trump and his "conservative populism" is only making that more transparent. The last real shot at an American right revival died with Robert Taft. Every attempt since him either imploded or literally died, e.g. Goldwater, Ron Paul, Larry McDonald. Nixon was virtually identical to LBJ on most policy, Reagan sucked up to evangelicals and had a single based moment in firing the air controller union, but otherwise he passed gun restrictions, mandatory emergency room care, massive deficits, the war on drugs, and various other left-wing items. GWB's major legislative accomplishment was medicare part D.

On any realistic timescale by which nations are normally measured, we are in an approximately 100 year long left-wing period following the collapse of American laissez-faire. Post-Mao Communist China is the new right.

Obama spent most of his political capital passing the ACA, socialism let alone communism has no power in the US.

That's because it morphed into corporate left-liberalism, which exists to the left of Marxism.
 
Since you just shat multiple paragraphs of warped reality at me, I'll cherry-pick a bit; how is the 'war on drugs' a left-wing item?

The nascent of the war on drugs was obviously alcohol prohibition which was a major platform for early progressives and newly emancipated women, though it at least required a constitutional amendment back then. Extra-constitutional measures began under FDR through the quasi-legal Marijuana Stamp Act of 1937, the ostensible motive and justification of banning/restricting drugs being to improve the common health. When it was declared unconstitutional decades later, the strongly Democratic Congress began pushing for more overt disregard of the Commerce Clause (an interpretation vital to declaring private property interests as public interests), with which left-wing LBJ gladly shepherded in the birth of modern drug laws. Nixon coined the term but it took Ronald Reagan, with strong support of left-wing black leaders like Jackson/Sharpton to turn it into all all-out assault on individual liberties in the name of the public's health.

There isn't a single factually incorrect component of my previous post btw.
 
Do you dispute the fact that Samuel Dickstein was a paid agent of the NKVD and the co-founder of the persecutory body which specifically targeted the right-wing? It only turned anti-commie after tankie-in-chief FDR died and Dickstein retired months later. The Ware Group, the Perlo Group, and countless others were operating critical portions of the US government under FDR's tenure. After many of the spies mysteriously died of heart attacks and fell out of buildings simultaneously, Harry Truman did the dirty work to ensure that the depth of communist infiltration under FDR was hidden as much as possible, all the while communist spies continued to operate culminating in the loss of nuclear secrets. By contrast, Hugh S Johnson was basically as economically managerial as anyone in FDR's early crowd and led the very influential National Recovery Administration, yet he was ousted by 1934 for merely saying a couple flattering things about Mussolini. I don't see how it gets any more embedded than that.

Actually, Dickstein worked with Martin Dies to root out communists in the U.S. as early as 1932.

I don't dispute that Dickstein was a Soviet agent--but the U.S. had spies abroad too, "embedded" in the Soviet Union and elsewhere. The presence of Soviet spies in the U.S. was hardly enough to undermine its liberal democratic and predominantly capitalist values system, not to mention the grip of its market ideologues.

You act like the presence of these agents counteracted and rewrote the basis of U.S. politics. That's simply absurd.

FDR's term was the most consequential of any president's in our history, it amounted to a completely new era in American politics. The expansion of government regulation under his communist-friendly term is responsible for everything from the war on drugs to the MIC to the runaway administrative state. His Stalin-friendly foreign policy was instrumental in ensuring that half of the world turned to communism in one form or another. His very last diplomatic act was in petitioning the king of Saudi Arabia to support the creation of Israel, which would of course come into being a few years later under his successor.

The Soviet Union collapsed. 1989 marked the "end of history," according to Francis Fukuyama; Western liberal democracy proved to be the more resilient political form, championing markets over communism. Diplomatic relations between countries does not mean that one country approves of another's economic policy and wants to import it.

'American right' is in and of itself a bit of an oxymoron anyways, split between corporate dupes and defense contractor whores, with only a very tiny handful of contemporary (and largely powerless) exceptions like Rand Paul and Thomas Massie. Trump and his "conservative populism" is only making that more transparent. The last real shot at an American right revival died with Robert Taft. Every attempt since him either imploded or literally died, e.g. Goldwater, Ron Paul, Larry McDonald. Nixon was virtually identical to LBJ on most policy, Reagan sucked up to evangelicals and had a single based moment in firing the air controller union, but otherwise he passed gun restrictions, mandatory emergency room care, massive deficits, the war on drugs, and various other left-wing items. GWB's major legislative accomplishment was medicare part D.

The war on drugs and prohibition were developments of moral progressivism, not political progressivism. You're confusing terms and concepts. It looks to me like you've read that prohibition was supported by progressivists in the early twentieth century and then assumed that early-20thc progressivism = contemporary progressivism; but this is really inaccurate. In fact, progressivism in the early-20thc was almost diametrically opposed to progressivism now; its values have totally shifted. It used to be about purity, temperance, and moral superiority. They saw government intervention as a way to purify the nation on its path to greatness (one element of this was eliminating the black vote). In many ways, progressivism in the early-20thc was a conservative movement.

By all measures, prohibition and the war on drugs were fueled by intensely reactionary conservative values, which we still find among the contemporary Evangelical movement nationwide, generally speaking.

Economically speaking, every president since Reagan has been neoliberal, which hardly translates into leftism or Marxism. You're being way too lenient with your vocabulary. There are protectionist and other forms of federal regulation on businesses, sure; but under the neoliberal order these are often guaranteed to secure business interests, not the interests of consumers or non-business owners.

How do you argue that the American right is the new left when modern economic policy in the U.S. awards private ownership? No one is taking property and distributing it to the masses.

On any realistic timescale by which nations are normally measured, we are in an approximately 100 year long left-wing period following the collapse of American laissez-faire. Post-Mao Communist China is the new right.

That's because it morphed into corporate left-liberalism, which exists to the left of Marxism.

Again, I think you're confusing/conflating concepts--in this case, economic leftism with identity politics, cancel culture, and other current variations of progressive thought. These things do not go hand in hand with Marxism.

There isn't a single factually incorrect component of my previous post btw.

Stringing facts together doesn't amount to an argument. You're picking minutiae and claiming they amount to a new thesis on U.S. history. The objection is that you haven't made a compelling case for anything because you're ignoring 99.99% of the picture.

Where do you get your information on history? I'm asking in all earnestness.
 
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The nascent of the war on drugs was obviously alcohol prohibition which was a major platform for early progressives and newly emancipated women, though it at least required a constitutional amendment back then. Extra-constitutional measures began under FDR through the quasi-legal Marijuana Stamp Act of 1937, the ostensible motive and justification of banning/restricting drugs being to improve the common health. When it was declared unconstitutional decades later, the strongly Democratic Congress began pushing for more overt disregard of the Commerce Clause (an interpretation vital to declaring private property interests as public interests), with which left-wing LBJ gladly shepherded in the birth of modern drug laws. Nixon coined the term but it took Ronald Reagan, with strong support of left-wing black leaders like Jackson/Sharpton to turn it into all all-out assault on individual liberties in the name of the public's health.

There isn't a single factually incorrect component of my previous post btw.

Ein more or less said a lot of what I was planning to say; the problem isn't that you have no facts it's that you connect the dots nonsensically.

For example the early prohibitionists were rubbing shoulders with the Anti-Saloon League and the KKK and this is what you're claiming is the catalyst for a so-called "left-wing war on drugs"? These obscurantist narratives make no sense. Referencing "newly emancipated women" as if that means anything they're involved with is left-wing because they're emancipated? If anything women's involvement in prohibition was a huge effort to reinforce patriarchal gender roles and was, as Ein already said about the progressive era, a form of social conservatism.
 
Actually, Dickstein worked with Martin Dies to root out communists in the U.S. as early as 1932.

Not to any meaningful effect, clearly, but credit for at least reading the Wikipedia page, albeit not honeslty.

I don't dispute that Dickstein was a Soviet agent--but the U.S. had spies abroad too, "embedded" in the Soviet Union and elsewhere. The presence of Soviet spies in the U.S. was hardly enough to undermine its liberal democratic and predominantly capitalist values system, not to mention the grip of its market ideologues.

You act like the presence of these agents counteracted and rewrote the basis of U.S. politics. That's simply absurd.

The difference is that communist spies in America dictated hearings and wrote policy, e.g. Harry Dexter White being assistant to Morgenthau, or the Agriculture Adjustment Act (one of the quintessential New Deal programs) being largely run by the Ware group. Communists were extremely and visibly influential on American policy in the 1930s and 40s.

The Soviet Union collapsed. 1989 marked the "end of history," according to Francis Fukuyama; Western liberal democracy proved to be the more resilient political form, championing markets over communism. Diplomatic relations between countries does not mean that one country approves of another's economic policy and wants to import it.

Who said anything about diplomatic relations? Nothing here responds directly to what I wrote about the impact of FDR's term nor the significance that imported communism had on it. Reads like an AI-generated response tbh.

The war on drugs and prohibition were developments of moral progressivism, not political progressivism. You're confusing terms and concepts. It looks to me like you've read that prohibition was supported by progressivists in the early twentieth century and then assumed that early-20thc progressivism = contemporary progressivism; but this is really inaccurate. In fact, progressivism in the early-20thc was almost diametrically opposed to progressivism now; its values have totally shifted. It used to be about purity, temperance, and moral superiority. They saw government intervention as a way to purify the nation on its path to greatness (one element of this was eliminating the black vote). In many ways, progressivism in the early-20thc was a conservative movement.

By all measures, prohibition and the war on drugs were fueled by intensely reactionary conservative values, which we still find among the contemporary Evangelical movement nationwide, generally speaking.

lmfao, in what world is politically-imposed moral progressivism not political progressivism? One's the body the other's the arm. The rest is pure invention and dishonesty again which you admit by omission in failing to actually quote my post, where I do not mention contemporary progressivism a single time. The point isn't about "progressivism" which is as arbitrary as any political term and a pedantic discussion not worth having. The point I am clearly making is that the early progressive movement has ALWAYS been considered left-wing movement, and that it rests substantially on government/collective intervention in private affairs.

To the extent that eugenics is now a dirty word you are correct, the vocabulary has changed somewhat, otherwise, absolutely wrong. Henry Ford awarding/punishing workers for their private alcohol use is literally no different from today's corporations awarding/punishing workers for their private tobacco use. The Evangelical movement is not intrinsically right-wing either; founding-father of American progressivism William Jennings Bryan was pretty much Evangelical Christianity's political bannerman, which you would know if you knew the slightest bit of what you were talking about. Evangelicals voted Democratic all the way until Ronald Reagan (which I already acknowledged), over reasons of abortion. Globally-speaking, more religious sectors tend to be associated with the economic-left, not the economic-right.

Economically speaking, every president since Reagan has been neoliberal, which hardly translates into leftism or Marxism. You're being way too lenient with your vocabulary. There are protectionist and other forms of federal regulation on businesses, sure; but under the neoliberal order these are often guaranteed to secure business interests, not the interests of consumers or non-business owners.

Where did I mention protectionism? You ignore the several well-established examples I gave, including public healthcare and anti-gun legislation, and then throw out protectionism as if I've ever denied the reliance of left-liberalism on neoliberal economic policies.

How do you argue that the American right is the new left when modern economic policy in the U.S. awards private ownership? No one is taking property and distributing it to the masses.

Small business ownership has been in constant decline since FDR, and civil liability has never been higher. The civil rights act of 1964 and subsequent EEOC basically criminalizes business ownership for those with the wrong opinions. Government bailouts overwhelmingly go to banks and "too big to fail" corporations (another Reagan-era accomplishment) while small debtors are told to pound sand. American households are renting more and owning less, particularly among younger generations. The tax burden of the middle class reached a plateau under the left-wing Reagan era. Private ownership has hardly ever been less-rewarded, unless you think Putin-style oligarchy is economic liberalism.

Again, I think you're confusing/conflating concepts--in this case, economic leftism with identity politics, cancel culture, and other current variations of progressive thought. These things do not go hand in hand with Marxism.

As I said, Marxism is to the right of left-liberalism.

Stringing facts together doesn't amount to an argument. You're picking minutiae and claiming they amount to a new thesis on U.S. history. The objection is that you haven't made a compelling case for anything because you're ignoring 99.99% of the picture.

Where do you get your information on history? I'm asking in all earnestness.

Weird because you have hardly cited anything beyond the meme end of history guy.
 
Ein more or less said a lot of what I was planning to say; the problem isn't that you have no facts it's that you connect the dots nonsensically.

For example the early prohibitionists were rubbing shoulders with the Anti-Saloon League and the KKK and this is what you're claiming is the catalyst for a so-called "left-wing war on drugs"? These obscurantist narratives make no sense. Referencing "newly emancipated women" as if that means anything they're involved with is left-wing because they're emancipated? If anything women's involvement in prohibition was a huge effort to reinforce patriarchal gender roles and was, as Ein already said about the progressive era, a form of social conservatism.

I define leftism as collectivism and rightism as anti-collectivism. If you have a cleaner definition, let me know. To that end, asking the government to ban an entire private industry, one which spans back to the earliest recorded history, just because your drunk husband beats you, is clearly left-wing. I'm unaware of many in the West (self-proclaimed feminists included) willing to eliminate patriarchal gender roles, which are pretty foundational to traditional Western values. By contrast, Marx did oppose feminist politics to the extent that they interfered with his class goals, and Mao saw that through the Cultural Revolution which was the most successful application of gender equality in world history that I'm aware of, to the extent that 50 years of post-Maoist Western capitalism have failed to widen the very-narrow gender gaps seen in modern day state-capitalist Communist China.

Do you think even modern leftism is somehow not socially conservative, e.g. wokeism? Conservatism is hardly right-wing anyways. With the sole exception of gun legislation (thanks as much to private support of organizations like the NRA as actual elected officials), conservatism has consistently failed to enact meaningful right-ward shifts in policy. There is hardly a "socially conservative" position of a given year that has not been forced out of the Overton window one generation later.

I disagree with your implication that the KKK was an inherently right-wing organization anyways. The KKK came about after the failed left-wing Confederate insurrection required resorting to pettier anarcho-tyrannical measures. It was the South that popularized sociology and class-determinism, that produced noted pantocrats, that opposed self-sufficient small-businesses in the name of global trade and economic maximalism, that produced two of the most left-wing presidents in our history, etc. By contrast, it was Lincoln's right-libertarian third-position that made the Gilded Age possible.