IN FLAMES new album being released on 1st March, 2019
- Thread starter Pallbearer
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Sorry. I did not express correctly. What I meant is that he wrote the melodies for the verses vocal lines. I don't know if he also had something to do with the chorus.
I think Niclas did better with Wallflower than Jesper did with The Chosen Pessimist. Interesting that Bjorn never dabbles in the weirder songs.
Sister Of Destruction
#teamjesterslave
- Jul 20, 2018
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Jester Slave
Narcissist
I have given The Hive like 4 opportunities already. My experience is that the song ends, and I immidiately forgot what the fuck had I just listened. I try to remember whether I liked it or not, but I can't remember anything, it is so forgettable. So no, I disagree that it encapsulates anything, especially on a record with Jotun, Gyroscope, Ep. 666, Food, Worlds Within and Jester Script.
Before I press post reply, I will listen to this again, let's see. Okay, I stopped it at 2:07, absolute fucking borefest. Like, more power to anyone who's into this, but I never liked raw jamming of instruments and vocals for hours on end. Every other song I mentioned from TJR hooks you in within a minute, so there is no excuse for this song to be this boring.
I'll admit, the first few seconds scared me, because it sounded really good, and I was like 1.) fuck, I have to delete my post and 2.) fuck, there was this gem, but somehow I missed it. Turns out it was smoke and mirrors. And listen, as much shit as I give to Zombie Inc. being mediocre (because it is, lol), at least it did something with its chorus. Rather weak from IF standard, but for fuck's sake, in 2:07, I'm not even sure if I heard a chorus in The Hive, it's just Anders drooling over the lyrics, like a robot, while the band playing the same, boring notes over and over and over... There's an interesting guitar mixed very, very silently in the background, but that's about it.
The only reason The Hive pisses me off, is because these motherfuckers actually choose to play this live sometimes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like holy shit, there are dozens of other, actually great songs not getting any playtime, and you have already played this more than 300 times?!?!?!
Why did you stop it before the solo? If there is a weak point to The Hive it’s the slow chorus, but it’s relatively short so no biggy.
I will admit they could have shortened things up. If they put the solo at 2:23 or even 1:51 the song would be a 10/10 instead of the current 9.5/10. After that change even people like you would be slobbering all over it and begging for more.
The Hive is basically the archetype of 90s melodeath - the long lost songwriting principle of using melodies in verses instead of placeholder half-note power chords.
You all need to study Whoracle a bit more closely
You all need to study Whoracle a bit more closely
Love The Hive, love Whoracle. It only loses minor points for the production which, IMO, is actually weaker than TJR. Something about it doesn't quite sit right with me. The songs on the album are so good though that it really doesn't matter.
Whoracle's a great record, and it has some of the best songs of the classic IF era (Food for the Gods, Jotun, Dialogue With the Stars, Morphing into Primal). That being said, Whoracle suffersfrom weaker production values, somewhat pedantic drumming and, of course, Anders' vocal performance. Anders definitely improved from TJR to Whoracle, but not by much. And the drumming is better on Whoracle than TJR, but TJR had more memorable songs. All three of those issues were vastly improved upon with Colony while keeping the songwriting chops that made TJR and Whoracle so memorable.
Agree, too bad the chorus is just a handful of strummed power chords. Goliaths Disarm Their Davids is better in that respect.
But, The Hive’s solo is god. I mean, it just keeps getting better and better as you go. Once you hit the final harmonized melody at 3:30 it is total rapture.
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Wow, I’m kind of taken aback with the criticisms of Whoracle’s production. To me it is perfect for what it achieves in the end. Just like TJR. And Colony. By changing the production you change the tone of each of these albums. I would never do it.
Maybe.... maybe Whoracle is a little too “hot”. But it never compresses and everything is crystal clear. I don’t see any problem. It’s just artistic discretion. I wouldn’t change a thing.
It's a really minor criticism on my part. It doesn't have any effect on my enjoyment of the album, unlike STYE for example, but I do prefer the production on TJR/Colony/Clayman compared to Whoracle. A very small gripe though that I only bring up as an afterthought.
In response to one of Slave's comments regarding IF always playing The Hive on live sets, it's possible it's done on purpose to give Anders a break during those last couple of minutes. He can take a breather, have a drink of water, etc, whilst the guitarists get a nice showcase. I do wish they'd change it up a bit and play some of the other songs off Whoracle more often.
Speaking of production, I just found some midi recordings of In Flames songs on Apple Music. White Knight Instrumental is the person’s name. Probably illegal and will get shut down. So of course I listened to Davids first because that was what I was looking for. But then I listened to My Sweet Shadow which was surprisingly complicated musically. I plan to go through a lot of them and compare apples to apples if you will. MIDI, the great equalizer. Production is not a factor.
Anders is an absolute beast on Whoracle. Technically it is nowhere close to perfection, but the energy combined with large diversity in screams is second to none. Raw and brutal, as it should be.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
Whoracle is the best IF record pre-R2R, unless we value discs by number of good songs to number of songs on the record ratio, because Subterranean becomes a good contender then.
I never tried to sink my teeth to deep into the production side of that record, but even as a casual listener I knew that...
1. while it still sounds dated, just like TJR and Subt. (not mentioning LS, because it sounds like a demo), it still has a sound of an actual band. More powerful and modern than TJR, but obviously not on the level of Colony and onwards.
2. The vocals are simply the best. TJR is throwaway material, Colony is full with those annoying vocal filters, and Clayman sometimes sounds like a shitty audiobook from Anders.
3. Clayman is more constructed in terms of how the tracks are put together, but it sounds weird, and IF has lost many of their original charm on Colony and on Clayman. Whoracle was the last IF record which was flawed in a good way, because the folks still weren't 100% serious about it, they were still nobodies, and that is a feeling and a sentiment which simply can not be repeated. Once you are somewhat famous and accomplished, you can't approach music like someone who still lives their parents and doing jobs on the side.
TJR is probably more memorable for it's melody-fiestas, basically that record screams that songs were put around medleys, solos, melodies, but I prefer Whoracle's somewhat more ambitious approach. Sure, shit like the ending of Jester Script makes me laugh every time, because there are 50 different guitars playing, and they put a solo straight out of the 70's there for god knows why, but that is what I talked about. You can only hear things like that from semi-amateur bands.
Also, Gyroscope >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ordinary Story, and Ordinary Story is a good song, mind you.
Best intro and outro combination as well. I love the energy of Jotun, and the weird pace of the song, just as I love how graceful and calm the outro is.
I never tried to sink my teeth to deep into the production side of that record, but even as a casual listener I knew that...
1. while it still sounds dated, just like TJR and Subt. (not mentioning LS, because it sounds like a demo), it still has a sound of an actual band. More powerful and modern than TJR, but obviously not on the level of Colony and onwards.
2. The vocals are simply the best. TJR is throwaway material, Colony is full with those annoying vocal filters, and Clayman sometimes sounds like a shitty audiobook from Anders.
3. Clayman is more constructed in terms of how the tracks are put together, but it sounds weird, and IF has lost many of their original charm on Colony and on Clayman. Whoracle was the last IF record which was flawed in a good way, because the folks still weren't 100% serious about it, they were still nobodies, and that is a feeling and a sentiment which simply can not be repeated. Once you are somewhat famous and accomplished, you can't approach music like someone who still lives their parents and doing jobs on the side.
TJR is probably more memorable for it's melody-fiestas, basically that record screams that songs were put around medleys, solos, melodies, but I prefer Whoracle's somewhat more ambitious approach. Sure, shit like the ending of Jester Script makes me laugh every time, because there are 50 different guitars playing, and they put a solo straight out of the 70's there for god knows why, but that is what I talked about. You can only hear things like that from semi-amateur bands.
Also, Gyroscope >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ordinary Story, and Ordinary Story is a good song, mind you.
Best intro and outro combination as well. I love the energy of Jotun, and the weird pace of the song, just as I love how graceful and calm the outro is.
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