IN FLAMES new album being released on 1st March, 2019

[galvanized]

TJR is musically raw but the production doesn’t have a lot of “bite” unless you crank the volume so it’s hard for me to actually call it raw.

Subterranean is rawer obviously. TJR is kind of smoothed over.

 

[Jester Slave]

These old pictures made me think... How did the fans react to Anders' dreadlocks? He must've changed it during R2R, as he doesn't have them on the CC music video, but he does on Trigger. Needless to remind you, I bet many people reacted badly to the changes which R2R brought, so combining the natural hatred of wanting to shit on the musicians (especially Anders, as he always gets the most of it) with having such a "non-metal" haircut must have had some people ripping into him in creative ways.

 

[DE4life]

How do you think people reacted? "Lol he wants to be Jonathan Davis what a poser".

Might have been true tbf. The dreads ended up suiting him though.

 

[Vermyn]

How do you think people reacted? "Lol he wants to be Jonathan Davis what a poser".

Might have been true tbf. The dreads ended up suiting him though.

I’m glad I was able to see one show at least with his dreads.

 

[galvanized]

When he got the dreads and they changed the sound on R2R my reaction is that they were total idiots. At that point, 2002, nu metal was already dying/dead and metal and metal core was coming. Who jumps on a dying fad? Most fans who were riding that wave thought the same thing.

I never knew until recently that Fredrik Nordstrom said the same thing about how they used to be leaders but then they started following at that point in time. That wasn’t a unique thought. Seriously, with R2R and then going “all-in” with STYE they betrayed all of us.

 

[Jester Slave]

How do you think people reacted?

As the mature adults they were, not harping into one's look, because they knew that they had a problem with the person, and not the musician, so they respected Anders' looks, because it had nothing to do with what kind of music he creates, and everyone should have free reign over their body as long as they don't actively hurt themselves. Obviously.

 

[Jester Slave]

I never knew until recently that Fredrik Nordstrom said the same thing about how they used to be leaders but then they started following at that point in time. That wasn’t a unique thought. Seriously, with R2R and then going “all-in” with STYE they betrayed all of us.

I believe the main reason some people feel this way towards musicians is because they assume the bands owe them anything. Basically every musician have to face this issue, and they can choose to do what they want, or to be the slave of their own fans.

Disturbed is a great example for the worst of both worlds. They were doing sellout music for their entire career, but you could at least say that they sticked to their guns, and kept their fans happy, who still wanted to live in the 2000s. Then they accidentally struck gold with a random ballad, so they pulled a 180 and completely rebranded themselves, because it seemed to be more profitable. Absolute pussies.

I adore every musician who is not afraid to do what they want to do, that's what a creative art should be all about. There are two sides of the R2R coin. One is that they saw how many records nu metal stuff sells, so they desperately tried to copy it. Two is that they really fucking liked certain elements of this relatively new genre, so they took inspirations from it.

If R2R or STYE were like Passenger, then we would have a big problem, but both R2R and STYE are still In Flames first, which I can appreciate.

 

[galvanized]

As the mature adults they were, not harping into one's look, because they knew that they had a problem with the person, and not the musician, so they respected Anders' looks, because it had nothing to do with what kind of music he creates, and everyone should have free reign over their body as long as they don't actively hurt themselves. Obviously.

I’m fine with Tomas Lindberg sporting dreads. Music was still brutal and awesome for Slaughter Of the Soul, right? But when not only does a band copy a music style but also the aesthetics, it signifies a totally intentional decision to totally change. Music, vocals, hair, hell even the fucking In Flames logo is “inspired” (engineered rip-off) by Korn. Even now, Anders looks just like Jonathan Davis despite both of them cutting the dreads and sporting the hipster lumberjack look.

 

[galvanized]

This is my problem with nu In Flames. The Korn style shift was so calculated and engineered that I don’t believe that they are “doing their own thing” any more. Even with their success they wanted what Korn and the nu-metal guys had going on and gave in to become more popular. They think way too hard about what to play, it comes across as insincere. I can’t trust their music. Maybe they did follow their heart but their heart was led astray by desire to be a big American band rather than sticking to what they were.

 

[DE4life]

As the mature adults they were, not harping into one's look, because they knew that they had a problem with the person, and not the musician, so they respected Anders' looks, because it had nothing to do with what kind of music he creates, and everyone should have free reign over their body as long as they don't actively hurt themselves. Obviously.

More chance of Krofius criticising Anders than this being the reaction but you know that.

Can't believe we're back on the 2002 sellout route again. It's pretty simple. They saw the money and followed it for a couple of albums. They lied about why and pissed pretty much all of their older fanbase off with their bullshit. I would have had more respect for them if they'd just admitted they were too lazy/drunk to keep creating top tier stuff, so they were taking the easier path. Nordstrom's comments from his time as their producer makes it pretty clear we were lucky to even get Colony and Clayman out of the band.

Come Clarity was their peak as a commercial entity (which is weird as imo it's not even that accessible to fans outside of the extreme metal sphere, but w/e, apparently it somehow was) and from then on the band have largely been stumbling in the dark with no real identity or, dare I say it, sense of purpose.

 

[galvanized]

This is kind of a taboo in metal but I’ve always wondered why In Flames doesn’t just hire a ghostwriter or composer to help them with their music. Maybe to some extent that’s what they are trying to achieve with these producers. But how about someone whose sole job is to write music and then the band takes it from there? In Flames are great performers and obviously that is their passion ... performing. I think this could be a good way to get them back on track.

 

[eochaid]

In Flames are great performers

I don't agree with this.

 

[krofius]

More chance of Krofius criticising Anders than this being the reaction but you know that.

Can't believe we're back on the 2002 sellout route again. It's pretty simple. They saw the money and followed it for a couple of albums. They lied about why and pissed pretty much all of their older fanbase off with their bullshit. I would have had more respect for them if they'd just admitted they were too lazy/drunk to keep creating top tier stuff, so they were taking the easier path. Nordstrom's comments from his time as their producer makes it pretty clear we were lucky to even get Colony and Clayman out of the band.

Come Clarity was their peak as a commercial entity (which is weird as imo it's not even that accessible to fans outside of the extreme metal sphere, but w/e, apparently it somehow was) and from then on the band have largely been stumbling in the dark with no real identity or, dare I say it, sense of purpose.

Disagree about them chasing the money. They were just tired doing that style, even Nordström said that on Whoracle and maybe Colony as well he had to convince them to do the harmonized guitar melodies because the fans wanted them, because the band was bored of it already. Is the band nowadays a big business as well? Of course, but I'm talking around the days of R2R - Come Clarity especially. Now I'm no songwriter or musician, but to me someone thinking ''Lets change it up and write the music differently to sell more albums'' seems absolutely retarded versus someone wanting to branch out and incorporate other sounds and maybe streamline it a bit more. I mean I could be completely wrong and they wrote R2R that way only to become a bigger band and sell more albums. The risk/reward for doing that seems very bad though, since no one can predict the future, it's not like R2R is mainstream radio station music in any country. If you think of it in the terms of extreme metal then yes obviously it has many ''soft'' parts.

 

[DE4life]

I don't agree with this.

Anders is a decent frontman. Shame he can't perform any of his clean vocals to a good standard but he does try to make things interesting. The rest of the band just kind of play, so, yeah. No different from pretty much every other metal band out there though.

Disagree about them chasing the money. They were just tired doing that style, even Nordström said that on Whoracle and maybe Colony as well he had to convince them to do the harmonized guitar melodies because the fans wanted them, because the band was bored of it already. Is the band nowadays a big business as well? Of course, but I'm talking around the days of R2R - Come Clarity especially. Now I'm no songwriter or musician, but to me someone thinking ''Lets change it up and write the music differently to sell more albums'' seems absolutely retarded versus someone wanting to branch out and incorporate other sounds and maybe streamline it a bit more. I mean I could be completely wrong and they wrote R2R that way only to become a bigger band and sell more albums. The risk/reward for doing that seems very bad though, since no one can predict the future, it's not like R2R is mainstream radio station music in any country. If you think of it in the terms of extreme metal then yes obviously it has many ''soft'' parts.

I think you're just naive in all honesty. Money is what makes the world go around and you're probably doing In Flames a disservice by suggesting they weren't smart enough to incorporate what they learned on their American tours and help themselves become more mainstream. Reroute was the beginning (mainly through catchy, clean choruses), STYE was the apex and Come Clarity was... well, the end of it. It's not a stretch to suggest that STYE's sound contributed to the success CC would have. In Flames substantially raised their profile by simplifying their music. Whether that's down to laziness or good business sense is open to debate, but I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt and say there as at least some thought given to how they could increase album sales. These guys are businessmen - as proven by Anders owning IF studios and Peter & Bjorn owning 2112 - they even released a book about 2112. They aren't some head-in-the-clouds set of musicians striving to push their ideals.

As for the risk/reward being bad, it clearly wasn't as they became much more successful and well-known during the R2R-CC period. You seem to think it was purely down to dumb luck, which again is probably doing a disservice to the band's business acumen at that time.

 

[galvanized]

They aren't some head-in-the-clouds set of musicians striving to push their ideals.

Which makes them a lot less interesting to metalheads or other underground scenes which are generally more idealistic. At least when young.

As for the risk/reward being bad, it clearly wasn't as they became much more successful and well-known during the R2R-CC period. You seem to think it was purely down to dumb luck, which again is probably doing a disservice to the band's business acumen at that time.

If R2R-STYE came from a new band no one would have cared. Come Clarity might have turned some heads, but their popularity was because of their solid metal foundation. They were for real guitar heroes because of their Clayman and prior work.

If I was in the same boat, maybe I would have capitalized on the opportunity as well. But this kind of thinking doesn’t make for “from the heart” metal.

 

[ThePhobiac]

I was curious about that Fredrik Nordstrom interview, so I tracked it down and gave it a read. Interesting stuff. Obviously you can't really know a band's intentions without them explicitly stating them — you can try to extrapolate those intentions from the music, but much of that is often projection (i.e. "I don't like the music as much, so that means they wanted to sell out" or "I like the music more, therefore it was an artistic choice").

Basically, the debate will rage on forever with everyone convinced that their take is correct.

What's really important here is that Nordstrom agrees with me that the snare on R2R sucked. Just bad, and that same sound sullied Siren Charms as well. I don't agree that it was that bad on STYE though.

 

[Clay-Man]

A lot of bands change their sound because they always grow as people, even past their early 20's. It happens to a shit load of bands.
You listen to more and more music and you get inspired by more and more stuff than you did from prior to now, and that'll bleed into the influence of your work.

It's pretty obvious In Flames payed attention to a lot more alt metal bands when they first toured America and it probably sounded fresh and new to them compared to all the melodeath bands out there, so they probably got influenced by that.

To sell out is strictly to change your sound for monetary and popularity purposes, not from any artistic visions.

Some of my favorite bands tried challenging theirselves by writing "art" albums. Everyone is gonna bitch about "why don't they sound like their old selves" but the fact is people fucking change.

Another thing people don't understand is that writing music is an "in the now" type deal, where you feel a lot of it out, not as meticulously planned as you think, I mean, obviously, planned enough, but it pulls from what you're feeling at the moment ultimately. If you can't feel that way again, you're forcing yourself to write something and it'll sound fake as shit, at least in the sense of a band writing music.

 

[DE4life]

According to Nordstrom In Flames already wanted to ditch the dual guitar harmonies on Whoracle, but Colony and Clayman sound totally authentic and creative, so maybe they're just really good at making fake stuff sound authentic.

 

[galvanized]

I see it more like Nordstrom as the Olympic coach.

Imagine if Michael Phelps said he didn’t want to swim anymore and then his coach convinced him to get back out there and he won gold again at the Olympics. No one would say Michael Phelps is not really a swimmer.

Then imagine if Michael Phelps did quit and suddenly became inspired to start 100m sprinting. Of course the swimming coach would be pissed.

People often need coaches to push them to be their best.

 

[Vermyn]

I see it more like Nordstrom as the Olympic coach.

Imagine if Michael Phelps said he didn’t want to swim anymore and then his coach convinced him to get back out there and he won gold again at the Olympics. No one would say Michael Phelps is not really a swimmer.

Then imagine if Michael Phelps did quit and suddenly became inspired to start 100m sprinting. Of course the swimming coach would be pissed.

People often need coaches to push them to be their best.

Coaches are “only for the weak”