IN FLAMES new album being released on 1st March, 2019
- Thread starter Pallbearer
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Sorry man, I didn’t mean to Trigger you but as you know it’s not always Black & White, figured it could be a useful Metaphor in this case.
I think the quote from A88 in my sig pretty much sums up the ridiculousness of the "they evolved as artists" idea. It makes no sense. If anything they devolved. It's easy to make up pretentious arguments as to why, but ultimately it was probably just a combination of laziness and good business. Simpler music tends to sell better, and requires a lot less creativity. As far as the band is concerned it's a win for both their well-documented laziness and their bank balance.
But we're strictly talking that early 00's era. Nowadays they're just an over-the-hill band well past their sell-by date who release records purely to remind people that they still exist. It's a bit sad but they've been around long enough to earn the right to do that, even if with each passing release they become less and less relevent.
But we're strictly talking that early 00's era. Nowadays they're just an over-the-hill band well past their sell-by date who release records purely to remind people that they still exist. It's a bit sad but they've been around long enough to earn the right to do that, even if with each passing release they become less and less relevent.
Evolution is gradual. Sometimes subtle. It comes without you noticing it.
Change is made on purpose. It requires an effort and attention.
I don't thing that one is better than the other. It will depend on the result.
As I see things, IF history is like:
LS to Clayman: Evolution.
R2R: change.
Stye: change.
CC: I considere this evilution since it involves elements from everything that they did before.
ASOP: evolution (same reasons as before).
SOAPF: change.
SC: change.
Battles: change.
The changes in the albums seem to be too drastical to not have been made on purpose. Sometimes it was good. Other times it wasn't.
The good thing, for them, is that they keep a good base od brainwashed fanboys that keeps on acceoting everything that they do no matter the quality of the work.
Change is made on purpose. It requires an effort and attention.
I don't thing that one is better than the other. It will depend on the result.
As I see things, IF history is like:
LS to Clayman: Evolution.
R2R: change.
Stye: change.
CC: I considere this evilution since it involves elements from everything that they did before.
ASOP: evolution (same reasons as before).
SOAPF: change.
SC: change.
Battles: change.
The changes in the albums seem to be too drastical to not have been made on purpose. Sometimes it was good. Other times it wasn't.
The good thing, for them, is that they keep a good base od brainwashed fanboys that keeps on acceoting everything that they do no matter the quality of the work.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
DE4, can you get past the notion that the more complex something is, the better it must be? It's just simply not true, and there are many musical examples out there which proves the opposite, actually. Just look at the shitfest which was the creation of Chinese Democracy. Or all the musicians who got consumed by their own fame and talent, and they got to the point where they became lunatics, who thoughts if they thought if they smear their feces all over the canvas, then it's some next level art.
As for Nordstrom, you have to see the big picture, and not just take things out of context and see what you want to see. The band is admittedly lazy, but it would be completely understandable if Nordstrom holds a grudge over what went down, hence the more negative comments towards the band. He saw them something truly great, but there came a point where the band wanted to do something else, and they just could not compromise. Once again, it's a matter of perspective. Do the perfected, hence very strict Nordstrom music for the rest of your career and be that band, or try something else, change things up.
There is no right or wrong choice here. We can stir shit up by trying to humanize this question with words like betrayal or evolution, but that's just twisting this for no good reason other than to make ourselves feel better. It was a choice similar to deciding to try your luck abroad or leave your long time significant other because you just can't see yourselves as a family down the road. Sure, people will give you shit for leaving your country or breaking up with "that really nice girl/boy", and you may very well regret it later. But it's just silly to assume that the 5 of them came together and they were like "yooooooooooo, I really don't want to work ever again in my life, let's play this nu metal shit that's already dying out and risk alienating our fanbase, so we may get rich and then we can work even less, haha!!!!"
Anders was 29, Jesper was 30 by the time R2R came out. You assume too much from two drunken rockstars who had already achieved more than they have ever dreamed by then.
Edit: I believe Restaurant 2112 was opened 2011. I don't know about their other projects, but these are the things which show that they are thinking about the future and want a steady investment.
As for Nordstrom, you have to see the big picture, and not just take things out of context and see what you want to see. The band is admittedly lazy, but it would be completely understandable if Nordstrom holds a grudge over what went down, hence the more negative comments towards the band. He saw them something truly great, but there came a point where the band wanted to do something else, and they just could not compromise. Once again, it's a matter of perspective. Do the perfected, hence very strict Nordstrom music for the rest of your career and be that band, or try something else, change things up.
There is no right or wrong choice here. We can stir shit up by trying to humanize this question with words like betrayal or evolution, but that's just twisting this for no good reason other than to make ourselves feel better. It was a choice similar to deciding to try your luck abroad or leave your long time significant other because you just can't see yourselves as a family down the road. Sure, people will give you shit for leaving your country or breaking up with "that really nice girl/boy", and you may very well regret it later. But it's just silly to assume that the 5 of them came together and they were like "yooooooooooo, I really don't want to work ever again in my life, let's play this nu metal shit that's already dying out and risk alienating our fanbase, so we may get rich and then we can work even less, haha!!!!"
Anders was 29, Jesper was 30 by the time R2R came out. You assume too much from two drunken rockstars who had already achieved more than they have ever dreamed by then.
Edit: I believe Restaurant 2112 was opened 2011. I don't know about their other projects, but these are the things which show that they are thinking about the future and want a steady investment.
The reason "evolution" is mentioned is because it's the stock defence from the In Flames fanboys/fangirls when their musical direction is question. "THEY'RE EVOLVING U IDIOT STOP ASKING FOR TJR 2 AND JUST ENJOY THE EMOTION AND FEELINGS IFWT". Now maybe these kids have just been playing too much Pokémon, but change does not always mean something evolves. Sometimes it's just change.
Change is not bad. But, when people disguise it as evolution, it reveals something about their thoughts. They seem to be ashamed of the change. Or maybe they're unable to revognize that there's been a change.
IF changed when they rekeased r2r and it's a very good album. I don't care about changes but I care about the path that those changes might be leading to.
IF changed when they rekeased r2r and it's a very good album. I don't care about changes but I care about the path that those changes might be leading to.
krofius
Active Member
- Mar 16, 2009
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Change and evolution arent mutually exclusive. Drastic changes can be part of your evolution whether it comes to music, or if it comes to some personal stuff for someone.
I have a real hard time believing them purposefully ''changing'' their style on R2R as a part of their grand scheme of selling out and becoming rich 10 years later. I see it more as their evolution as a band, I just think they were bored a lot doing what they did before, coupled with new studio and producers probably also had some influence on the sound. I think if I don't remember wrong, the band has said that Clayman was their worst time recording an album because everyone was fighting with each other, so maybe that also had influence on the next albums sound. But lets be real, in hindsight Clayman to R2R isn't some massive groundbreaking change where you don't recognize the band or anything, you can still clearly hear In Flames and their trademark melodies, sadly the production is just a bit muddy. Would have been really interesting to hear R2R with Fredman sound and see how the comparison would be then. I think it's much more Anders vocals than the music that holds the biggest change on R2R compared to Clayman though.
Change is done on purpose. Or it's usually done on purpose. Evolution is not. Evolution involves changes. But that does not seem to be the case with IF from 2000 onwards.
Or, better said, change is a conscious act. Evolution is a continuum.
As for IF, I think that they've been aplying changes to their music, conscious changes, on purpose. They did not evolved. There's not a path starting clayman till reaching battles. Yet you can clearly see an evolution starting ls till reaching clayman. An evolution that involves changes but that does not make the change itself the main actor of their musical path.
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Of course not. I think that they discovered new music and new ways to approach their music so they decided to go that way. And the final result was fresh and brilliant.
The point is that people repeats that they have evolved as a mantra, thus pretending that there's a long continuous journey in the band. While what be heard is that they have changed. And the people making it wrong is the people pretending this have not happened. As if they're embarrasef about something.
If I was a fan of their latest albums then I would be saying: "they have changed. Deal with it".
When r2r was released I realised that they had changed. The same happened with soapf, an album that, to me, is closer to r2r than any other album for what it represents. Rupture with their inmediate pass and a new way to approach the music. It never crossedmy mind the thought of seeing those albums as evolution from something.
If I was a fan of their latest albums then I would be saying: "they have changed. Deal with it".
When r2r was released I realised that they had changed. The same happened with soapf, an album that, to me, is closer to r2r than any other album for what it represents. Rupture with their inmediate pass and a new way to approach the music. It never crossedmy mind the thought of seeing those albums as evolution from something.
The problem with regular change - as is the case with In Flames these days - is that people no longer know what to expect from a band when they release an album. That's generally not a good thing. With In Flames you have absolutely no idea what to anticipate from their next release, as their sound alters so drastically from one record to the next. If I was confident that the next album would be like SOAPF I'd be looking forward to it and probably buying on day one. Instead I'm waiting because I have no idea how it's going to sound.
As an example, whenever Freedom Call release an album I buy it straight away. I don't need to read reviews or listen to samples first. I don't even hesitate, because I know if it's got "Freedom Call" on it, it's going to be great. It's a stamp of quality (as far as Power Metal goes) and you know you're going to get something which is both familiar but also fresh. Their last two albums could have come straight after their best album (Eternity, 2002) and not sound out of place at all. The band still sounds as energetic and talented as they were back then, despite going through a lot of line up changes. The core of the sound remains the same and as a result I never have any doubts when picking up one of their albums.
I have no such trust when it comes to In Flames. Their name is no longer a guarantee of quality, it's a total crapshoot as to whether it'll be any good. It's little wonder their status across the world has diminished substancially since the days of Come Clarity - "In Flames We Trust" became a joke mantra because you can't trust them to do anything.
As an example, whenever Freedom Call release an album I buy it straight away. I don't need to read reviews or listen to samples first. I don't even hesitate, because I know if it's got "Freedom Call" on it, it's going to be great. It's a stamp of quality (as far as Power Metal goes) and you know you're going to get something which is both familiar but also fresh. Their last two albums could have come straight after their best album (Eternity, 2002) and not sound out of place at all. The band still sounds as energetic and talented as they were back then, despite going through a lot of line up changes. The core of the sound remains the same and as a result I never have any doubts when picking up one of their albums.
I have no such trust when it comes to In Flames. Their name is no longer a guarantee of quality, it's a total crapshoot as to whether it'll be any good. It's little wonder their status across the world has diminished substancially since the days of Come Clarity - "In Flames We Trust" became a joke mantra because you can't trust them to do anything.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
David Bowie? Yes, I know you said generally, but when we have such extreme examples, you really can't argue that what IF done is objectively bad (or good, for that matter).
Think of it as actors being typecasted. Can you blame an actor if he wants to be something else now than being the big bad guy in a movie, even if everyone loves him as the big bad guy? It's the equivalent of dance monkey dance. You want IF to be your monkeys and do what you enjoy them doing, and get upset when they want to do something else.
There is a really good Hungarian song about this, here's the rough translation of the lyrics:
"Some are quiet and calm
Easy to tame, mute prisoners
But there's him, who turns feral
If he can't escape his prison
The show is on
You are watching my life
Monkey in the cage
Yes
I'd shake the rail
But I'm not brave enough
Monkey in the cage
But my jailor
Can not escape either
Monkey in the cage
Darling
You blame me so much
That I believe it
Monkey in the cage
You have to choose, what's more important
Open up yourself, or lock yourself away
Those who are not free are only living half of a life
The hearts of the prisoners break
[chorus]
He's just watching and feeding
Laughing at the tears
He's allowed to be faceless
He loves through hate"
I really like the last part, because that's what it boils down to. People firmly believe that by giving shit to individuals for their own selfish reasons is actually their expression of their dedication towards said individuals. But as I mentioned this many times before: the first time someone would come into their life and would try to tell them what to do and how to do it, they would be the first to be offended and dismiss it as intrusive and mean-spirited.
And the change vs. evolution debate is absolutely hollow. The very definition of schemantics. We should leave it for the Facebook fighters, because it's nothing else but trying to bend the truth their way. While we could write up essays and analyze every random shit, the truth is probably closer to 5 Swedes sitting in a hotel room with empty beer cans everywhere, and one of them asking the rest "Guys, I'm kinda bored of this shit. How 'bout you? You too? Really? Ok cool." Less romantic, but more realistic.
Jester Slave
Narcissist
The important question here is regarded by whom? Yes, the fella who feels hurt by this decision will remind everyone, everywhere about how hurt he is, while the person who still enjoy their music will not comment everywhere saying "hey guys, just wanted to let you know I still dig you!"
I'm sure there are many mothers out there, who are still considered a bitch by one of their high-school boyfriends, and said boyfriend tells this story every single night at the pub. Good for him, but no one really cares, and it doesn't matter at all.
I'm sure there are many mothers out there, who are still considered a bitch by one of their high-school boyfriends, and said boyfriend tells this story every single night at the pub. Good for him, but no one really cares, and it doesn't matter at all.
Tell this to the people reminding once and once again that they have evolved.
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