Hmmm.... Well I have known about this whole church ordeal for quite a while now. And I can say with confidence that it hasnt, nor will it ever change my opinion's of these people. To start Euronymous, while ushering in a new style of metal....was a jackass. At least in my opinion. Varg? The man need's to decide if he is a neo-nazi, a VIKING, or a Satanist. Perhap's I could view him as intelligent and respectable in an extreme way if he didnt turn thing's into this pathetic nazi bullshit. Hatred of religion is fine. And if you're gonna be a hate monger, please place your hate where it is justly needed. Against the human race, not a sub category of it. The thing is, so many good ideal's, so very many powerful way's of thinking. Can be destroyed in a second of assanine activity.
In childhood and teen year's what little "powerful, meaningful" thinking goes on is expected to fail in some way or another. When you're young, hell even if you're 17-18-19 year's old. You're still learning about yourself and the world around you. And passion can often be used in very negetive way's when you arent equipped to use it maturely and responsibly. Bard? Well I think he has a few screw's loose POSSIBLY, or maybe he really doesnt care about killing, or really enjoys it. Whatever, he still write's powerful lyric's and is actually a fairly good drummer. The fact he stabbed a homo to death does not change my view on his music. His lyric's arent about stabbing gay guys are they? No. I dont really think he did it because the guy was gay, just because he was an easy target to kill. Like I said, hate humanity and it's collective immaturity. People fuck up, grow, learn etc. But when a race, a society cannot grow the hell up over 2003+ year's...... Some shit is wrong.
Dead? That guy OBVIOUSLY was either special (as In he was sane and saw thing's in a way a majority of people cannot), or he was SPECIAL as in a total loony toon (most likely the second but who knows). In some way's I feel sorry for him but eh, he's dead and if he were alive my pity would me less than jack shit to him. It would probably be insulting. Hellhammer? The guy is sane, he isnt a batty bastard. And is in my opinion a good pick for overall best drummer I have ever heard. Yeah he was involved with Jackasses like Euronymous and Varg, and sure Dead might have been a whack job. But.. he seems to have a head on his shoulder's.
Which bring's me to Ishahn and Samoth. Ishahn personally is someone whom I admire beyond my ability to describe. Admidst all this jackassery he has been the most elegant and productive. What happened when Anthems came out? "Troo" Black metallers said that it was no longer black metal (I assume because of the clean singing and the fact that it didnt sound like total shit). The music was so much more evolved than on the previous album's and the band's, particularly Ishahn's real talent started to come into view. Out of all the old BM band's.... Mayhem, Darkthrone, Immortal, Sigh, Abruptum, Burzum etc etc. Emperor is and was the most evolved and original.
Too many other band's were concerned with their image. Their somewhat lacking ability as musician's in certain area's was masked by their "evilness". And the lame ass ignaramus fan's who listened to it because mommy and daddy didnt like it. And it was *troo evil* didnt have dry eye's when Emperor decided to have intelligent powerful lyric's and talented beautiful music. They did what other band's hadnt in the past... They worried about the MUSIC not the image. Samoth is someone who I have great respect for. He himself I would say is just as important to BM as Euronymous was. Yet again my opinion. And seeing he and Trym at a Zyklon concert in person really made me realize this... "Ok I've met the dumbass from Deicide with the burned into his forehead cross (his name escapes my memory as I do not listen to Deicide ever) with their extremely cliched music....Now I see Samoth and Trym, former member's of Emperor. And look Trym is standing there with his coat on freezing looking at the cars pass by.... hes a normal fucking guy." The conviction in their belief's is in their music and it' expressed well. Not in how white their faces are or how *EVILL* they can be. I think Ishahn in a sense is more "evil" than It (rofl) from abruptum can ever hope to be, just like all these other dumbasses. Then again is it really evil? I think not...
So really call it evil, call it stupid, call it immature. Whatever, youve got to realize different things mean different stuff to different people. Even Ishahn said burning churches he had no problem with, but he would rather it wasnt the stave chruches because they were works of art. So yeah some people are moron's and some WERE moron's in a sense. But hey we are all young once, we are all stupid many times. Who here can say they have never been immature? Who here can say they arent stupid sometimes? No matter how smart you may think yourself to be you eventually find out you dont know jack shit.... And you learn, you grow. So while dumb shit was done and mistakes were made by teenagers....People grow up and learn. Some still act stupid some find who "they are" and sort out all the shit. And thats why I say I dont give a damn what they have done. I will enjoy the music thats enjoyable and hate the music that sucks plain and simple.
As far as this religion argument goes... well. Id be inclined to agree with Iron flames excpet the fact that religion is a weapon. If people werent stupid, selfish fucks religion would be harmless. Sadly the weapon that religion is is the most highly advanced and potent one in the human arsenal.... the ability to distort the truth, to enslave the minds of others and bend them to your will. And while religion is total and utter shit.... It takes total and utter SHITHEADS to make it as bad as it is.... And religion has made alot of good thing's.....Black metal is an example....If there was no church to hate would Emperor ever exist? If there were no muslims would Ancient Rites just be another cliched metal band? Just because some people allow themselves to be idiotic doesnt mean all do. Give it nothing to control and it will dissapear all on its own. But that isnt gonna happen now is it?
<DIV>And Led man youre defeating yourself. Its obvious Iron doesnt even care enough to fight back. Wether that means he dosnt care, knows hes wrong or is so confident in being right that he has nothing more to say is something besides the point. But going on and on after he has dropped it just makes it look like youre trying to beat a dead horse hoping people will think that you killed it. Personally I agree with you and him on some level. Like I said different things affect different people in different ways. No use trying to get him to think hes an ass or for him to get you to think you are wrong. Its fruitless. ELt everyone think what they want, defend your opinion and debate it if you want... but watch th flames and ongoing one sided arguments man.. It doesnt look
