Is Opeth the best metal band at this moment?

[Armageddon's Child]

Originally posted by Wolff
and they're mostly crap. I fail to feel the emotion in Nile, Demilich, Abigor.

Perhaps you can enlighten me.

There are emotions that aren't somber and introspective, child. Anger, bitterness, hate, all are emotions, perhaps more visceral and immediate than sorrow (which seems to be the chief emotion Opeth intends to convey), but they are no less emotions for that... Beyond that, the fact remains that emotion isn't universal. One person can be moved to tears by a piece that another finds, melodramatic, artificial and totally unemotional.

Besides, the conveyance of emotion isn't the be all to end all of music, music that delights the intellect can be just as great or greater than more overtly "emotional" pieces (and I find Nile and Demilich to be FAR more brilliant from an intellectual perspective). Let me put it this way, I find Beethoven to be a far more emotive composer than Handel, yet I consider Handel every bit the composer as he, if not, in fact, superior. While Handel does not touch the heart as Beethoven does, he delights the mind in ways that Beethoven could never hope to match.

 

[Wolff]

Originally posted by Armageddon's Child
Opeth suffers from two major flaws that have kept them perpetually short of the elite level.

1. Many of their songs are not conceptually realized, for whatever reason. It's almost as if Mikeal has an idea about where he wants to go with his music, but that the idea never got beyond a sort of nebulous brainstorming stage, the end result being tenuously coherent pieces badly in need of a more defined vision and some significant editing. To the discriminating listener, Opeth's albums come across as unfinished. An unfortunate waste of considerable talents.

2. Mikeal seems to rely on the Opeth arrangement formula to carry his songs, eschewing the effort to create really memorable riffs. Instead, he churns out a lot of perfectly servicable but often rather generic riffs, hoping that the patented terraced dynamics and distorted/clean tradeoffs will be pleasant and distracting enough to draw attention away from the rather ho-hum riffs themselves.

Until Opeth fix these problems, they'll remain nothing more than a fairly interesting band with good ideas and flawed execution.

Intensely melodic riffs, exquisite acoustic interludes, excellent vocals. Never a dull moment.

Unfinished albums?
Arrangement formula?

I find it ironic, that you complain about the perceived lack of emotion in Opeth, and mention Nile and Demilich. Yes anger, bitterness, hate... are emotions... and very primordial at that... so no wonder you'd find Nile and Demilich more appealing.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

No more primordial than any other emotion, just more immediate. Truthfully, as I've said, while I find some interesting emotive aspects of both Nile and Demilich, my chief interest in each of those bands lies in what they bring intellectually with their very unconventional approaches to the arrangement and construction of their music. They're also helped out by killer riffs...

 

[metalized]

R U kidding me? Opeth r descent, really good! But the best metal band? Come on guys! Opethians r supposed to b openminded and view things the way they r, not the way they wish to be!

Nevermore is the best metal band! Ever! (Along with Priest and Fates Warning)

Sincerelly yours,
Metalized
A closed minded nevermorian.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

You think Opeth uses no songwriting formulas? Are you deaf? Their formula is what makes them distinctive. There's definitely a "typical" Opeth song. They generally alternate between fairly standard Gothenburg inflected riffing, backed typically by growled vox, alternating this with somewhat folky accoustic interludes backed by restrained "clean" vocals. Drag this out for 8-12 minutes and you have a fairly standard Opeth song. You'll find that most of their tunes fit within this basic format, perhaps with a few minor variations. That doesn't make them lesser writers for this, most composers have a standard format for the music they write, it's what makes them unique.

 

[Wolff]

Typical death metal. Boring at best. Lyrics are very interesting too

Smashing The Antiu

Burning of the Defeated
Dragging The fettered Rebels
To the Block of Slaughter

Decapitated Headless
Naked and Bound
Captives Adorn my Shield

Arms Tied behind their Backs
Lying Bound in Agony
Fiends Hold them with Ropes
Awaiting Beheadment and Mutilation

With Contempt for the Vanquished
We Exterminate the
Dwellers of the Eastern Desert

Amenhiu!
They are Doomed to Slaughter

We stab their bodies with Daggers
We Smash their Skulls with Clubs
We Crush their Bones
And Gash their Faces
Their Necks are Broken and Severed
Their Bowels are Gored with Spears
Yeah ! We Hack off their Limbs
And Cast the Phalluses
Into Pits of Fire

Smashing the Antiu




Barra Edinazzu

Zi Anna Kanpa
Zi Kia Kanpa

Gallu Barra
Namtar Barra
Ashak Barra
Gigim Barra
Alal Barra
Telal Barra
Masquim Barra
Utukku Barra

Idpa Barra
Lalartu Barra
Lalassu Barra
Akhkharu Barra
Urukku Barra
Kielgalal Barra
Lilitu Barra

Utuq Xul Edinazzu
Alla Xul Edinazzu
Gigim Xul Edinazzu
Mulla Xul Edinazzu
Dinger Xul Edinazzu
Masquim Xul Edinazzu
Barra Edinazzu

Zi Anna Kanpa
Zi Kia Kanpa



To each his own I guess.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

Actually, not typical death metal. Their tonal construction is very different from most death metal (though still retaining the chromatic internal movement characteristic of death metal), their arrangements typically linear rather than repetitive (in most cases), thematically they're different. They are clearly a death metal band, but are in their way just as innovative as Opeth (and far more interesting in my estimation).

 

[Culture_AK47]

i think Armageddon's Child is being overly harsh in his criticisms. in my oppinion Opeth are the greatest band in metal history, they cannot be pigeon holed into any genre stating a variety of talents and they can create and change emotions and moods with the little instruments that they use as well as any great classical composer. when listening to a masterpiece such as morningrise i feel things, emotions, i sense a real atmosphere created by Opeth in their music so intense that no other musician's have ever been able to have that effect on me..... and that is why Opeth to ME are special, that is why to ME they are the greatest band in history.

their dual guitar riffing is memorable and well executed. there is no pattern (eg verse chorus verse) with the majority of the riffs never being repeated more than one part in a song. this keeps my attention and never makes me get bored. over time opeth have grown on me even more, every time i listen i feel something new. the music never grows old.

as far as death metal goes, well AC says the emotions are as powerful as what Opeth create... i disagree, the majority of death metal bands create a FALSE emotion of hatred and anger that never has any real effect on me because it seems so fake. the music (especially melodic death) can be a good listen but never will be anywhere close to the beauty of Opeth.

i ain't slept in 4 days and i'm tired, but this is why Opeth means more to ME than n e other band ..... it is only my oppinion.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

I find a lot of the emotion people see in Opeth to be completely artificial. It's PURELY A MATTER OF TASTE, KID!

 

[Lina]

why do you post on this board if you think opeth has so many faults? i'm not trying to be a bitch, i'm just genuinely curious.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

For all their flaws, I enjoy Opeth quite a bit.

 

[E V I L]

I sit corrected. AC remains as childish as he wants to be. Sorry but you're not even worth the time, kid.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

What, afraid of having all your 'concrete points' revealed to be nothing more than talk? Or do you intend to hide behind more pretentious anachronisms?

A tad touchy, aren't we jr.?

I've always found your sort of pseudo-intellectual windbag to be rather humerous. You've always got points that you're "going to make at (fill in later time of choice)," yet, when the time comes, you're there with nothing more than a load of excuses, usually couched in the form of ye olde ad hominem. Now, obviously, there's a possibility that you don't fit this profile, but your behavior thus far indicates that this is unlikely, as you have yet to respond to me even so much as ONCE without personal attacks, or for that matter, with hard the hard, "concrete points" you claim to have. When you reveal a capacity for intelligent discussion uncolored by your assinine personal attacks, I'll consider reevaluating my impression of you. Until then, you have nothing of value to contribute to me.

 

[E V I L]

Originally posted by Armageddon's Child
What, afraid of having all your 'concrete points' revealed to be nothing more than talk? Or do you intend to hide behind more pretentious anachronisms?

A tad touchy, aren't we jr.?

I've always found your sort of pseudo-intellectual windbag to be rather humerous. You've always got points that you're "going to make at (fill in later time of choice)," yet, when the time comes, you're there with nothing more than a load of excuses, usuall couched in the form of ye olde ad hominem...

I don't bluff.

Here's an interrogative ad hominem, if you don't mind: Your name is Rahul Joshi, isn't it?

Also, how are old you really? I'd say you're more than 20. But you act like a child; as matter of fact, you act more childish than anyone else I've seen on this board. Sad but true. You represent yourself well.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

Way off the mark there, jr.... I'm not Rahul, nor have I ever been associated with SSMT except as an occasional visitor to their bulletin board and sometime critic of their often poorly informed elitism.

And if, as you say, you, "Don't bluff," then where's the "concrete points" you spoke of? For that matter, care to introduce any evidence of my supposed childishness beyond my temerity to disagree with you, oh pompous one?

 

[Wolff]

Stop editing so goddamn much Rahul. I know you're nervous and all...

 

[Armageddon's Child]

If you posted at Metal Maniacs at all, you'd know I wasn't Rahul.

As for editing, I do it when I think of something to add in lieu of breaking my posts up. It's easier to maintain a coherent discussion with a few longer posts than with 14 2 sentence jobs...

Besides, I'm anal about my posts, I find myself irritated by gross, uncorrected typos, so I endeavor to keep them from MY posts...

 

[Armageddon's Child]

The old canard comparing arguing on the internet with running in the special olympics (I'm sorry that I can't find the illustration that goes with it) seems to be applicable to the current discussions...

 

[SentencedToBurn]

Oh my god Armageddon's Child, please shut up. i respect the fact that you dont think opeth is the best metal band. but your pointing out the most stupidest faults. quit using these big words to make you sound smart. you just sound like a jag off whos trying to sound smart. i find from alot of your posts that you point out alot of flaws in music. stop trying to find the flaws in music and try to find the great things in it and maybe youll like it better. you can name flaws in ANY music so who cares.

 

[Armageddon's Child]

I do like it, but I like it for what it is, not for what I wish it would be. It's possible to enjoy music and still find flaws in it. I've never gone out of my way to find fault, but I don't avoid the issue when I do. I think you hit it on the head, nothing is perfect. One can find flaws in ANY artists' work. Artists are humans too, and therefore fallible. You do yourself a disservice to become upset when someone points out what they see as flaws in a band's music. Hell, you do yourself a disservice to take seriously ANYONE'S opinion about music but your own, as that is the only opinion that can have any applicability to your own situation.

As for the rest, I suppose I am a bit pedantic, but I can't really help that. I write as I speak and as I think. I'm a historian by trade and inclination, and the manner in which I communicate sort of comes with the territory. It's not born of some desire to intimidate, it's just the way a think, write and speak.