Is The Knowing the most essential ND album?

[batmura]

First off, I know each album in any band's discography chronicles a different era of their sound, so please don't respond saying, "All of their albums are essential in a different kind of way" etc. What I mean is that I was just browsing for ND on Metal-Archives.com and checking review ratings. I saw that The Knowing seems to be their highest scored one. So my question is this: Is there a general consensus among ND fans as to their best/most essential album? If so, what is it? If not, which one in your opinion is their most definitive body of work?

Thanks!

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Well I know this isn't the answer you're looking for, but I just want to take this opportunity to point out a couple of things...

1.) The Knowing was the 1st album of ours to receive really widespread attention from the press and public. That's not to say that the first two discs didn't do well in their own right, but it seemed like The Knowing just reached alot more people overall, and I'm sure that had just as much to do with the label and how it was being pushed as it did with the quality of the material and so forth.

2.) I don't think you're going to have much luck in getting a definitive answer to your query because we have changed so much over the years, while we do have fans who enjoy and appreciate our entire catalog, it seems like there's alot of ND fans who are more particular about different eras of ND, meaning that people who are fans of the last three discs might not like the earlier material at all because, in so many respects, it's just so different. From viewing the forum all these years and getting to sorta know the people who post here, I can already probably guess what answer each person is gonna give, and know who'll say "The Knowing" is definitive, and who'll say "Pale Haunt" is definitive, etc. lol

Again I know this goes against what you want to hear, and of course I'm not a "fan" so it doesn't really count anyhow, but the thing is, we've always strived to be the band who doesn't really have just that one definitive cd, in that sense that we always want to keep evolving and changing, and so it becomes hard to really pick one disc that "sums up" the band. Same as it's hard to pick a defiitive/most essential Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, etc., cd that most can agree upon, that's what we strive for at least.


In any case, it'll be interesting to see what the responses are, though like I said I can probably guess what a good number of you are going to pick already hehe ;-)

 

[Will Bozarth]

This is my favorite release, without question. Essential? Yes, it is. The MOST essential? Every CD is the most essential, because then you'll hear the band evolve.

Is The Knowing the most essential in terms of what I want to hear? Yes.

 

[Farlo]

honestly i havent really had a chance to get and listen to the knowing, the album that got me started with the band is pale haunt. was looking at similar bands on last.fm to mourning beloveth. loved the sound of ND after hearing autumn reflection. i need to buy the knowing re-release, maybe ill ask my fiance buy it for me for xmas.

 

[beast from the east]

When I tell anyone about ND (and I spread the word as much as I can), I recommend they check out Pale Haunt first. To me, this is their definitive work. There is a huge amount of emotion in that album, and afaic, it has some of their very best tunes. ND always crafts excellent songs, but TPHD is the masterwork. That's my two cents...

and as for a definitive song, I'd say it's Collapse of the Fallen Throe. Such an epic fucking tune...

 

[Rycher]

I haven't spent much time with The Knowing, since I just got the cd last week and have listened to only the first few songs on the remaster, but what I heard didn't give me the impression that it's the most essential.

If I had to pick one, it would be The Novella Reservoir, closely followed by INRI. Those two albums are tremendous - from the songs, to the lyrics, vocal performance, and overall production.

This is one band where I can honestly say that from the first album to the last, they continually get better with each release, since my enjoyment tends to fade as I have worked backwards through the catalog.

I definitely prefer the last 3 albums to the rest.

 

[Jasonic]

The Knowing was my first ND disc ever, so it will always be an important release for me. I remember hearing Harmony Divine for the first time, and just being blown away. Not at all what I was expecting, for some reason.

Anyhow, if I had to pick one "essential" ND release, it would be THE PALE HAUNT DEPARTURE.

I truly like EVERY single ND release, though each is so different in its own right.

I think TPHD musically and lyrically is the strongest.
Also, I think it's the one album which best showcases all the band's eras the most.

 

[Novembers Paul]

We've played Aphotic for a few people who are close to us, and those who always give us their brutally honest opinions, and for what it's worth, they all seem to think this new release is the best thing we've created yet. It will be interesting to see what you guys think.

 

[Jasonic]

Paul, feel free to send me a copy!!!

 

[great_kthulu]

We've played Aphotic for a few people who are close to us, and those who always give us their brutally honest opinions, and for what it's worth, they all seem to think this new release is the best thing we've created yet. It will be interesting to see what you guys think.

excellent, that is good news, BTW, about how long is it?

 

[Jasonic]

excellent, that is good news, BTW, about how long is it?

I am guessing it's about as long as any CD: 4.5 inches

 

[Novembers Paul]

excellent, that is good news, BTW, about how long is it?

Almost 51 minutes.

 

[BalanceofPower]

I think The Knowing is the most essential ND album this holiday, so hurry and buy!

 

[CanadianMetalFan]

I don't know if its the most "essential" my favourite album is The Pale Haunt Departure. I have all of their CD's granted I just got The Knowing and their new one which isn't so new anymore so I can't really give a fair assessment on those CD's yet. All their albums are worthy pick ups though.

Joel

 

[Septembers Marc]

Hi there!
'The Knowing' was the first ND-album I heard and for me it had a kinda 'old Anathema feel' (for lack of a better expression) that grabbed me instantly. In that way it's an essential album to me personally, closely followed by 'To Welcome The Fade' 'cause it has the same sort of melancholic feel in a way. I thinks that's partly to be credited to their former guitarist Eric and his way of songwriting.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Well, "partly" is the operative word, because on both of those records, especially "...Fade", I had a hand in the songwriting and creation of that music too. Sorry I just get a bit sensitive about that at times, because while Eric deserves tons of credit for his contributions and what a great talent he truly is/was, I did my fair share too that seems to go unrealised by some, heh. The musical shift that occured during the period between TWTF and TPHD had as much or more to do with the fact that Paul and I consciously wanted to go in other directions than we'd gone before as it did with Eric's departure. Meaning, even if Eric had stayed, I think you'd have still noticed a shift in sound/direction because we'd kinda taken that earlier style as far as we'd wanted to at that point.

 

[Arline]

If memory serves didn't Eric only write three songs on fade? One being Paul's favorite "Torn"

 

[Novembers Paul]

Torn... Ouch.

Where as I would say Eric had more of a hand in The Knowing, Larry had more of a hand in To Welcome the Fade, and that's not saying the guys didn't contribute and collaborate either. Sculptured Ivy is basically all Eric, and remember, Larry was new to the band for The Knowing, so he was sill testing the waters and finding his place, and by the time Fade had started, I believe, and Eric forgive me if I'm off base here, but his focus was on other things in his life, and Larry took the ball and ran with it. I do remember Eric even saying when Fade was done, that he wished he had contributed more.

Anyway, since The Knowing, everyone collaborates and contributes. There are riff ideas and arrangements and suggestions from drummers, bassist, and myself on these CD's. The final result you hear is the chemistry of the band at that particular time. There's hardly ever a time a song is presented and it remains unchanged. It becomes Novembers Doom when we all put our touch on it.

That said, go buy The Knowing re-release. It sounds great, and damn, wouldn't it be nice if someone commented on how the re-release SOUNDS on this forum? haha

 

[great_kthulu]

hopefully will be able to comment on christmas day, its on the top of my list! lol

 

[TheNewChupe]

Feel free to correct me if you think i'm wrong on any of this guys.

I think things were pretty even contribution-wise on The Fade. The Knowing was, as Paul/Lar mentioned, basically when Larry joined & he started contributing some writing. He did really take off with his writing after The Knowing.

The way it usually fell out back then was one of us would bring a pretty much completed song to practice, the band would go through it and make little arrangements here & there, and it'd be done. That was how I wrote- at home, with headphones and maybe 4-track. I didn't write well on the spot because I was concerned with trying to push the envelope on chord changes and little time signature things (like on Aura Blue) and fitting melodies in where I could, and those fell out more naturally for me when working at home where I could think more. So when I say someone wrote a song, they pretty much wrote 95% of it, and the band worked together on the last 5% of effort.

For The Knowing, iirc, Larry did Last God and In Faith. I came in w/ most everything else, with the exception of In Memories Past which I believe I brought the riffs in and we pieced together one night on Mary's living room floor.

For The Fade, Larry did a lot more: Not the Strong, Lost in a Day, If Forever, & Spirit Seed were all him. Broken, Torn, Lifeless Silhouette, the piano piece were me. I think I brought in probably 75% of Within My Flesh & Dark Fields but those were a bit more collaborative than most others.

At the time of The Fade, I'd become much more into indie music and wanted to branch out in different directions. The major rise in Larry's amount of writing added different influences (more metal). That's why the record is so disjointed. As Paul mentioned, at that time I was also dating my girlfriend (now wife) long distance between Chicago & St. Louis, and that had become more a priority for me than the band. In hindsight, it was better for the band that I got out so they could focus their direction better.



And what I've heard of the new Knowing tracks sounds solid. Things are more punchy, tight, and distinctive. You guys (& Chris of course) did a good job. I do still like the old mix for its hazy, dreamy quality that I think goes well with the subject matter, but you can actually hear more on the new mix. And with the new mix, I can now say... I like Silent Tomorrow It was my Torn, haha. Looking forward to hearing the new one, hope it came out even better than you wanted.