Is vs. Are

[Lyle]

collective nouns are fucking stupid and discussing niggling points of grammar is really boring

 

[skeptik]

Immanuel Kant said niggardly LOL

 

[byrne]

Band A have long hair.
Band A is touring this year.

Although this is completely inconsequential, the fact that you incorrectly raised technicalities means you need to be corrected.

You don’t say “Band A has long hair”. The Band doesn’t have any hair. You say, “the members of Band A, have long hair”.

However, when referring to Band A touring, you were right in saying “Band A is touring” or even “Band A are touring”. You can refer to the band in the plural sense (as in it has many members) or in the singular sense (as in it is one entity). The difference between the two (hair and "band") is that you aren't referring to the individual characterisitcs of band members in the second situation ...

I naturally lean towards the former and that is where I cast my vote.

And on the topic, BP is correct. This thread is no worse than threads where you have to list your “top 10 favouritestest bands of ALL TIME” or even the metal game thread which sucks even more than that, but people keep posting in.

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

It sparked some degree of intelligent discussion here for once, so it was a decent topic. We need more of those big long actual discussion topics we used to have as opposed to the seven page topics where the average response is three words long.

 

[Enemy242]

I use is or are depending on the situation. i don;t really think about it though.

 

[skeptik]

Although this is completely inconsequential, the fact that you incorrectly raised technicalities means you need to be corrected.

You don’t say “Band A has long hair”. The Band doesn’t have any hair. You say, “the members of Band A, have long hair”.

However, when referring to Band A touring, you were right in saying “Band A is touring” or even “Band A are touring”. You can refer to the band in the plural sense (as in it has many members) or in the singular sense (as in it is one entity). The difference between the two (hair and "band") is that you aren't referring to the individual characterisitcs of band members in the second situation ...

I naturally lean towards the former and that is where I cast my vote.

And on the topic, BP is correct. This thread is no worse than threads where you have to list your “top 10 favouritestest bands of ALL TIME” or even the metal game thread which sucks even more than that, but people keep posting in.

You're supposed to treat a band as any other collective body: as a single entity. Thus it would be wrong to say, for example, "Opeth are touring." You wouldn't say "Congress are in session," would you? If you would, you would be wrong. And because you'd be wrong about that, and the two examples follow the same principle, you would be completely wrong.

 

[byrne]

not really. it is generally an accepted colloquialism to refer to the band in the plural due to the way it is treated as entity of people. you couldn't say "congress is here". its not referred to as an entity of people in that respect. nor could you say "congress are here", so what you said proves nothing. :-o

 

[skeptik]

Colloquialisms don't validate incorrect grammar.

Why can't you say "Congress is here?" Of course, I don't see when that example would ever be used, but whatever. And yes, it is referred to as an entity of people there. "Congress is here" follows the same principle as "Congress is in session." It's applying a trait to the entire body as a whole, and not appealing to the individual members. Now, if the entity itself is plural, like the New York Giants, then you would use plural.

So you're saying that you can't use "is" OR "are" in your example? What the hell do you plan on using then, a blank space? "Congress here?"

 

[Profanity]

Using "is" sounds childish. I always use "are".

 

[skeptik]

And you're wrong a good percentage of the time.

 

[byrne]

you can't say "Congress is here" because it sounds retarded ...

Anyway, colloquialisms are the basis for modern language, thus if they don't blatantly break any form of rule structure, they are not incorrect. In this case, it doesn't, so there is nothing wrong with it.

perhaps i should say "Congress here" though ... atleast I'd be doing something different and putting a number of confusing looks on peoples faces.

 

[skeptik]

"Congress is here" would actually be the proper form, regardless of how it sounds. When you're considering a sole entity irrespective of the individuals that make up that entity, you treat it as you would the third person singular (e.g. he or she; "he is here" or "she is here").

 

[Susperia]

you can't say "Congress is here" because it sounds retarded ...

Well I guess that's a personal preference, because I actually think "congress is here" sounds better than "congress are here". Probably because the word congress is singular.

 

[Vital Remains]

"Congress is here" would actually be the proper form, regardless of how it sounds. When you're considering a sole entity irrespective of the individuals that make up that entity, you treat it as you would the third person singular (e.g. he or she; "he is here" or "she is here").

you made your point in you last 50 posts asswipe

HA

 

[Barking Pumpkin]

you made your point in you last 50 posts asswipe

HA

silly people

 

[Vital Remains]

i wish that we wouldnt argue anymore, but yet he persists..........

 

[skeptik]

Discussions are not about making points and bowing out you fucking imbecile. Castrate yourself.

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

"IS" are the correct word.

 

[Raven_1959]

One is British, one is American.

British people tend to refer to entities that are singular but made up of multiple sub-entities in the plural form, like:

BMW are releasing their new car on Wednesday.

Americans tend to use the singular:

BMW is releasing their new car on Wednesday.

Being British, the latter looks really wrong to me, but I should imagine the converse is true for an American.

That's my opinion. There's normally more than one person in a band, so I use 'are'. 'Is' sounds wrong, imo.

 

[Procella]

My grammar book says that with words like 'team' or 'family' you can use both 'is' and 'are', so I think that with 'band' it's the same. I always use 'is'