drew_drummer
Dancefap
You sir are giving me a really bad impression of Polish people. The last Polish guy I knew was also a bit of a right-wing douche bag, but you're taking the fucking cake!
Israel.
- Thread starter Damian B
- Start date
You sir are giving me a really bad impression of Polish people. The last Polish guy I knew was also a bit of a right-wing douche bag, but you're taking the fucking cake!
drew_drummer
Dancefap
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!
You really are a fucking idiot. Stating that there are IQ differences between racial groups is not the same as saying that on average Asians are smarter than Caucasions.
One is a statement based on a sampling. The other is a statement based on stereotyping.
Get the fuck off this forum. You offer absolutely NOTHING to this community other than evidence that you are a fucking MORON!
There are plenty of sites to discuss race on the net, this is not one of them. Most people cannot critically think enough to discuss the topic rationally and often get too emotional. We should all just get back to talking about preamps or how do I make my drums fit in this mix.
Hi Guys,
Being Israeli (and Jewish), I wanted to comment on the subject but the discussion kinda strayed towards racial definitions and differences. It's pretty obvious that some of you have a dislike, or even a certain hatred towards jews or zionists, I would be interested in reading more about the "why".
Going back to the discussion about Israel, there's too much to say. Let me start with the fact that Benjamin Netanyahu faces a lot of criticism for his sayings and actions from many Israeli and opposing political parties, not just for the way he handles the Iran issue, but taxing, internal affairs, etc. I have voted for Netanyahu, and I deeply regret that. Sadly, as some of you may experience in your countries, the political alternatives are less-than-great, lightly speaking.
I can also understand the American criticism, coming from the government, but I believe that allowing an extreme Islamic regime to hold a nuclear weapon will pose an immediate danger not only to Israel, but to other western countries as well.
But while Iran in my personal opinion is an important international and strategic issue, I feel like my government has been somewhat neglecting the other pressing issues revolving around Israel's security.
BTW, If you have any questions about life in Israel or the way we see things from here, feel free.
Regarding race, you've been talking a lot about the differences in intellect. I'll just say that I've met some really dumb ashkenazi jews in my life, and brilliant Africans. It's a matter of education, environment and socioeconomic status as much as it is a matter of genetic heritage and character.
P.S - Just a small comment about the reliability of Wikipedia. While most consider it a legitimate source to quote from and refer people to it when debating, there were times I found it inaccurate, or biased towards this side or another.
Being Israeli (and Jewish), I wanted to comment on the subject but the discussion kinda strayed towards racial definitions and differences. It's pretty obvious that some of you have a dislike, or even a certain hatred towards jews or zionists, I would be interested in reading more about the "why".
Going back to the discussion about Israel, there's too much to say. Let me start with the fact that Benjamin Netanyahu faces a lot of criticism for his sayings and actions from many Israeli and opposing political parties, not just for the way he handles the Iran issue, but taxing, internal affairs, etc. I have voted for Netanyahu, and I deeply regret that. Sadly, as some of you may experience in your countries, the political alternatives are less-than-great, lightly speaking.
I can also understand the American criticism, coming from the government, but I believe that allowing an extreme Islamic regime to hold a nuclear weapon will pose an immediate danger not only to Israel, but to other western countries as well.
But while Iran in my personal opinion is an important international and strategic issue, I feel like my government has been somewhat neglecting the other pressing issues revolving around Israel's security.
BTW, If you have any questions about life in Israel or the way we see things from here, feel free.
Regarding race, you've been talking a lot about the differences in intellect. I'll just say that I've met some really dumb ashkenazi jews in my life, and brilliant Africans. It's a matter of education, environment and socioeconomic status as much as it is a matter of genetic heritage and character.
P.S - Just a small comment about the reliability of Wikipedia. While most consider it a legitimate source to quote from and refer people to it when debating, there were times I found it inaccurate, or biased towards this side or another.
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
If you really must ignore all the evidence, you will stay an ignorant.
The wiki page i linked has so much source material linked at the bottom that you could research it for weeks.
I can't help you with that.
My final words on this (off)topic:
Take a large enough sample of lets say 1000 asians, 1000 caucasians, 1000 africans to form a scientifically significant set of data.
If we add all the numbers and then divide by the number of samples (thats how we calculate averages), asians will score about 106IQ, caucasians by design 100IQ and africans 90IQ.
That doesn't mean that there can't be individuals with IQ above 200 in any of these 3 groups (for example Barack Obama must be pretty smart to successfully smooth talk the majority of USA citizens into voting for him).
Thats what scientific studies say about the matter.
If you have trouble understanding written word, you can also look for images on Google with keywords: IQ race
Or even search on Youtube.
Re. "Tests are skewed because they make them for whiteys" - Then why asians score better on these tests ? LOL This should be enough to end the topic, but i'll go further. It is true that there are many types of intelligence, but we are living in a world where for example spatial intelligence at which africans are best doesn't really matter because we don't live close to nature anymore and we can't really use that type of intelligence to gain any advantage in our daily lives and careers.
I highly doubt you will understand, not because you are unable to understand, but because you were brainwashed into thinking that all races are the same.
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
Right.
Of course there are many cases in which individuals will score better than the average for their group on an IQ test, thats why you can't judge if someone is smart or not just based on the color of his skin.
+1
Always look for warnings saying that the section has no references to reputable sources and if you have time, look up these sources if there are links and titles and read them.
ArthurD
Member
I'm sorry, but as I am a jurisconsult I'll have to warn you about this thought (not in a legal way, but in a jusphilosophy way).
First of all, I'll criticize the "samples" you took.
Which Asians? The wealthy ones (meaning the ones that have acess those who have minimal access to education, adequate food, those who live in countries that have laws that respect human rights, like japan and south korea, or are talking about countries like Bangladesh, Laos, Cambodia, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu ?
The same goes for what country you refer to as African or Caucasian.
In his view, a person who is mentally disabled son of two would never have enough intelligence to anything, it would be a genetic issue. It's not what happens.
Secondly, some extremists like the Nazis, the Facists, the use of eugenics considered scientific data to justify antisocial thoughts.
But it's just rhetoric. Data that do not match the reality of the facts.
In a hypothetical space, permute 1000 children in each group that you put as a sample to another social space: remove the thousand "Asian" and place them in a country like Sierra Leone, where basic rights are more restricted to certain classes. Remove opportunities. Now, take the 1000 children "African" and give education excellence, proper nutrition, health, love, encouragement, good family, security, piped water, public lighting, public transport quality. Retrace your IQ test and find that the "African" has the IQ greater than "Asian."
In the end, it's not a matter of IQ. But a matter of opportunity and exploitation.
I think you could get out of ignorance and study a little (not hard, just open a book, read, understand and know to say something about what you learned).
Just be careful with pretentious theories, which may violate the rights of any human being, because the man has a tendency to solve problems with a focus on interpretation of a fact, but does not seek pragmatic efficiency.
Here are a list of authors, in order for you to understand the history of human thought:
Socrates
Plato
Aristotle
Rousseau
Machiavelli
Auguste Comte
St. Augustine
Cesare Beccaria
Cesare Lombroso (who wrote the criminals are identified by their features, which has been widely applied in the United States until the end of World War II)
Karl Marx
Michel Foucault
Ronald Dworkin
Richard A. Posner
Good Luck!
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
There are theories and there are published and peer reviewed results of real world tests.
Scientists know very well how to choose a sample of a population that will represent the population as a whole.
You didnt say anything new and ground breaking here - ie i agree with most of what you said about the metodology.
Or are you implying that all authors of experiments in which there was a difference in IQ between races are not aware of how to design such an experiment ?
Some here seem to say that those scientists are racists and that they design their IQ tests to show the supremacy of one race over another, i hope you are not one of them.
Skinny Viking
¯\(°_o)/¯ How do Lydian?
HOLY FUCKING SHIT DUDE DO YOU EVER KNOW WHEN TO JUST FUCKING STOP???????
you're like a yappy little dog
you're like a yappy little dog
drew_drummer
Dancefap
In fact this is EXACTLY what should be implied - it's a definite possibility. Scientists are not infallible, even peer-reviewed data is not infallible.
It seems to me that YOU as a SINGLE PERSON are starting off at a position of "these stereotypes seem true to me" and then go looking for evidence to support your pre-established opinions. I could show you evidence to suggest that Asians are more stupid than chickens, and by your own bullshit statements, you'd have to conclude it was the truth.
How about this? Either drop the bullshit stereotyping, or go sort potatoes or build a driveway really badly... because in British culture, that's what the Polish stereotype is.
MarcusGHedwig
Member
Huge +1 to Fenixdoido, it's nature vs. nurture - next we'll be talking about facial measurements...
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
I give up.
From this moment i will only link pdf files because it looks like due to your strong negative emotions towards me you are fully resistant to understanding what i am trying to say.
http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/RandRProgressIntell2003.PDF
Now be nice enough to tell me that a MRI machine is racist because it shows there are differences in brain size between races (which has a high correlation with IQ), so i can laugh some more.
And stop calling me a racist.
If you don't agree with something written in the Wikipedia article i linked, how about changing that article and supplying good reputable sources.
I am not racist, i don't judge individual people based on their race.
I am not better than a man from Africa because i am white, that man can be a highly skilled genius surgeon with IQ above 200.
How could a racist say something like this ?
ArthurD
Member
Once upon a time there was a theory accepted and published and proved about the earth being the center of the universe.
Then someone called Copernic proved that sun was the center of the universe.
Now its believed that the universe don't even have a center.
In other words, I'm saying that science exists to improve knowledge. There are two types of conclusions on science. A zetetic and a dogmatic.
the first one attempts to verify the scientific (or moral, philosophal, argumentative) errors. The second tries to solve a problem questioned.
To give an example: A man rushes past Socrates and Athens police question "where was the thief."
a) zetetic: Believing that the police may be wrong about the agent, Socrates asks: What is a thief for you? What is crime? What was he committed a crime?
With this approach, humanity evolves guaranteeing various rights that today you consider basic, such as the dignity of the human person, which is a dogmatic solution to the problem "Am I sure that this is the person that committed the crime and caused dammage?"
another approach, same example:
b) Dogmatic: By trying to solve a problem, Socrates says that if the thief is next door.
Thus, the person is marked as a thief without even having a trial because at the time the power to punish was just a revenge from whom it was stolen.
That being said, this kind of research exists to solve some problems (prove differences between people).
They are dogmatic.
But when they close their systems to other influences its easy, no, supereasy to questionate. If IQ is genetics, why not improve mankind killing everyonelse that has less IQ and is consuming world resources?
As I said, a lot of politicians used this kind of studies to legitimate a lot of crazy, anti-human, acts.
In your case, return to some old postulates is like forcing to return the old conception that the earth is in the center of universe. In pratical ways, this kind of study don't improve humanity, but bases weak arguments like yours.
I'm not saying you can't use this halter, if you want.
But I want you to know that there are "Asians" working inside ship containers for you to buy some of the stuff you wear. (Its funny how some facts don't get into the United Nations schedule, even if factual proved with denounces). And you defend that they have better IQ then you (genetic).
So, what would be fair is you to get his place and work in a situation analogous to a slave, so he could have access to information in the internet.
Other studies that were accepted and published legitimated that the monarch could have your wife on first night after your marriage. If she wasn't a virgin she would be killed.
Not all authors. But the problem of this kind of experiment (and theories) is that it tries to generalize and dogmatize something that is impossible to check, unless they analyse whole world's population.
3000 in a 6+billion is little.
As I said. They have a conviction. They will prove the way they want to. If they wanted to analyse people poop and checked some relation to their convictions, they would use it.
So I ask you. Why these scientists are right and sociologists, lawyers, psychologists, doctors, chemists and nutritionists that have loads of different (and new) studies are wrong where they diverge?
This is my last post regarding this subject.
Now, lets talk about Iran and Israel and its concepts and subjects.
Israel don't wan't peace. In justice, peace is achived when there are no winners, but someone who yelds.
Israel in the vision of Iran is the dictator employer.
Iran in the vision of Israel is employee that wants to strike.
Like employer and employee, none of them are going to give up.
And new generations learns the hate, not the conciliation and yelding.
None of them are right.
Atom bomb is not right.
US is wrong having atom bomb.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
No. I'm not resistant to what you're saying. But what you're saying is full of holes, contradictions, and emotional overzealousness ... it's a simple fact that statistics can be misrepresented, and they don't always reflect the reality. But you're taking a page of numbers and using that as a basis for defining your perceptual realities... or rather, you've already defined your perceptual realities, and will only consider viewpoints that correlate to those perceptions.
It's called confirmation bias.
What I AM saying, is that there is WAY more to intelligence than brain size, race, and IQ. Shit... even IQ itself is disputed in some scientific and academic circles!!
You're making simplistic arguments and then aren't liking the refutations that people are giving. You bat the ball back, calling the other person an idiot for not understanding you, and then you have the balls to act amazed when the other person lampoons you - as you justly deserve!
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
Good post fenixdodo.
If you look at a piece of paper, you may believe it is white or black, but if you take a digital photo in fully controlled environment and then in software apply an averaging filter to it, you can see exactly what color it is if you look at RGB or CMYK values and no one can argue with the numbers without knowing exactly how the experiment was conducted with all the details.
It is just solid objective data.
Without a physical proof or at least 2 witnesses, the man is not a thief even if he stole something - thanks to that you will most probably never go to jail if you are a good person.
2 completely different things.
Looks like you are a much better opponent in a discussion than some other Sneapsters here, so could you please look at that pdf file i linked above and comment on it ?
Problems arise when people have trouble accepting scientific data, because of what they were taught all their life and because of waht they view as morally, politically etc. acceptable.
If you look at a piece of paper, you may believe it is white or black, but if you take a digital photo in fully controlled environment and then in software apply an averaging filter to it, you can see exactly what color it is if you look at RGB or CMYK values and no one can argue with the numbers without knowing exactly how the experiment was conducted with all the details.
It is just solid objective data.
It is good that in our modern word we apply scientific principles to solving such cases.
Without a physical proof or at least 2 witnesses, the man is not a thief even if he stole something - thanks to that you will most probably never go to jail if you are a good person.
How many times should i say that talking about averages taken from whole population and then giving single examples to "disprove" the average is not a good approach ?
2 completely different things.
Looks like you are a much better opponent in a discussion than some other Sneapsters here, so could you please look at that pdf file i linked above and comment on it ?
Mutant
I hate that supercow !
Congratulations !
LOL
The first thing you said here that i can agree with.
Now read that pdf and tell me something about it.
I am going out bicycling in the woods, so you have few hours to do that.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Very telling of your psychological makeup.
Makes sense I guess. The average Pole is an argumentative fuckhead with no reasoning skills whatsoever and a penchant for shagging chickens.
Y'know... just average.....
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