Let's make me a good bassist... tips?

[(__Joonas__)]

Today I listened to this youtube audio with notes being played and someone chanting the name of the note. Then I played the note from everywhere it occurs on the fretboard, while having a picture of fretboard on paper with notes written. Trying to familiarize myself with the fretboard to find notes faster, and train my ears to tell notes apart. I realize this would be easier with 24 frets, as the thing just repeats after that 12th fret.

 

[CharIie]

I'm kind of working a lot recently at uni, which explains why I've been a bit down on the creative side, but I'm definitely up for this. How about I gave you my mail or facebook and we discuss it there ?

 

[ESA1996]

I designed a song for two guys already but I've yet to hear what they came up with. But if you're up for it of course we can try. I get creative for a while and hear a song idea, then describe it to you, and you'll do it, then we'll see what comes up when there's this symbiosis thing.

When do you want it? I only need like 40 minutes for it. Maybe tomorrow I have time to dive deep.

I have my song ready (And I have had it ready for over a year now ) but I'm waiting for the album release. Don't think it's quite as atmospheric as you'd like but the intro and the first solo definitely are pretty nice. After that it goes to some pretty basic power metal stuff.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Sure, it's the salt of life to get creative now and then while having coffee, expose the wicked side that so often needs to be kept shut. Let's do it at the atmosphere thread.

 

[Froze]

I always talk about colours of sounds and melodies. So I can colour the notes however I hear them based on the vibration/nature/mood? This gonna be interesting... whether they're supposed to glide accordingly to rainbow or not. I will give them out to you here once I'm done.

For example I found this:

http://www.lunarplanner.com/Harmonics/planetary-harmonics.html

Where is the brown note?

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I hear ya.

Still can't figure what notes on my fretboard are included in the harmonic minor scale when I've tuned to B. There's some pics on google about it, but they're just... wrong.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I found pics of 'b harmonic minor' but it seems the notes transpose in the wrong direction, how is that possible... I try to grasp what should I learn and practice at this point. I think of finding a scale I like and play on it, I'm learning the notes of the fretboard, trying to improve my ear, improving my finger work, then maybe I should learn some chords?

 

[ESA1996]

Natural Minor: B C# D E F# G A B
G: 024
D: 024
A: 023
E: 023

Harmonic Minor: B C# D E F# G A# B
G: 024
D: 124
A: 023
E: 023

Melodic Minor: B C# D E F# G# A# B
G: 024
D: 124
A: 024
E: 023

In B tuning the strings would be
D
A
E
B

instead of
G
D
A
E

but the frets (023 023 024 024 etc.) are the same regardless of tuning.

 

[ESA1996]

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/gu...scchnam=Harmonic+Minor&get2=Get&t=12&choice=1

That's how to play B harmonic minor on a B tuned guitar. To play it with a bass just ignore the two top strings. You can learn any scale with that page. I used to learn scales from there. Nowadays I know them all so I don't need it (No, I don't really know them all by heart, though I can figure them all out ).

Normal minor can be found with the name "Natural (Pure) Minor" in the list of scales. It's by far the most used. Harmonic minor can give you a certain feeling to a certain part of a song (Easy to sound spooky when using it for example), but I have yet to hear a song that would go solely in harmonic minor. Most metal songs go in natural minor from start to finish.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I'd suppose the notes have to move on the frets together with tuning, otherwise they'll be different notes.

And this pattern posted by Esa on the pic seems to repeat only after 12th fret.

Oh and Lemmy's playing isn't my taste at all. I want to create my 'own way' of playing that sounds gloomy, atmospheric, mysterious, dark... and can sound enjoyable even on a 4-string bass without high pitch notes.

From my understanding the best for this is the harmonic minor. But there's some other mysterious and epic-as-fuck desert night campfire sounding scales?

What is that devil's interval, augmented 4th, tritone thing exactly?

Well, this does some explaining:
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2011/07/the-devils-interval/

But is this note system included in harmonic minor?

 

[ESA1996]

A new octave starts at fret 12, that's why the pattern only starts to repeat itself at fret 12. It takes a while to learn a scale all over the fret board due to this. These number things I'm posting are only the open string positions for a scale.

Devils interval is basically the interval between the open E string and the 1st fret of the A string, on your bass that would be open B string and the first fret of the E string.

A good really spooky sounding scale is Phygrian Dominant (Also known as the 5th mode of a Harmonic Minor):
124
023
023
014

or a perhaps even spookier variation:
124
123
023
014

 

[mrKRB64]

I personally wouldn't concentrate so much on theory straight away as you might find it too overwhelming if your also trying to learn technique at the same time. I'd say just write out a list of songs that you enjoy and go to ultimateguitar.com and try and learn them or at least parts. Guitar pro will really help you out. You'll pick up the basics of theory just from playing along with songs & then you can start studying it more in depth. You said you played guitar & keys though so you probably already have a decent understanding of everything.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

^I used tabs when playing keys and guitar, but didn't get into theory so much because it wasn't necessary as I took the shortcut. But now I can't get guitar pro and I can't get tux guitar working, so I decided why not dive into theory as it's good in long run. Just playing from tabs is something anyone can do and doesn't really teach much. So I kind of want to learn to actually play, besides just jamming to songs with tabs and pretending I can play them. I realized there's no chance in hell I could figure out the bass notes by ear, nor other instruments really, with the lack of theory and ear. Maybe I could eventually, but it would not be accurate notes. I'd rather just use tabs than use hours to figure one note by ear... So I want to learn theory. Like, nobody would pick me to play bass in their band if I could play impressive songs by tabs, but could play nothing in reality.

 

[ESA1996]

Expert advice, I haven't played enough bass to be cognizant of such things, and I meet so many lackluster bassists, it's good to see a man who knows his stuff. Props.

Five years of music theory and seven years of guitar do tend to teach you something. I don't actually play bass though I do have one.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

A new octave starts at fret 12, that's why the pattern only starts to repeat itself at fret 12. It takes a while to learn a scale all over the fret board due to this. These number things I'm posting are only the open string positions for a scale.

Devils interval is basically the interval between the open E string and the 1st fret of the A string, on your bass that would be open B string and the first fret of the E string.

A good really spooky sounding scale is Phygrian Dominant (Also known as the 5th mode of a Harmonic Minor):
124
023
023
014

or a perhaps even spookier variation:
124
123
023
014

I only recently figured why the 12th fret is marked so notably on the fretboard... it's the same note when pressed down or open.

But those notes in B-tuning would be... 5th fret on the B-string and 6th fret on the E-string. So this is what I'm confused about.

But then what frets after that when going right?

 

[ESA1996]

I only recently figured why the 12th fret is marked so notably on the fretboard... it's the same note when pressed down or open.

But those notes in B-tuning would be... 5th fret on the B-string and 6th fret on the E-string. So this is what I'm confused about.

But then what frets after that when going right?

Yes, an open string and the 12th fret on the same string are the same note exactly one octave apart. The 24th fret would be the same note again but basses rarely have that many frets as they aren't needed.

Devils interval is any two notes that have that same amount of notes between them. Interval literally means the distance between two notes. Here's a list of the different intervals (Translated from Finnish so some of the names might be slightly different than what they are in English): small 2nd, big 2nd, small/minor 3rd, big/major 3rd, 4th, augmented 4th / devil's interval / tritonus / flattened 5th, 5th, small/minor 6th, big/major 6th, small 7th, big 7th, octave. As for the devil's interval, E and Bb, F and B, F# and C, G and C# etc., are all devil's intervals.

The link I posted has a tuning option in it which I already set to B standard so you don't have to transpose anything in it. B minor in B tuning is played exactly the same as E minor in E tuning.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Hmm... how do I determine which way I go on keyboard / fretboard if I read 'E and A' for example? Because the distance is different depending which way I go to form the interval.

Ah I get it. The devil's interval just means two notes played that have a distance of 6 half steps, which is half an octave. I think it's confusing to say "three whole steps", because there practically is no C flat or F flat, or B sharp and E sharp...

I still don't get how is a scale the same if it's played from the same positions in different tunings! As different notes have different character, and scales are all about a certain character.

 

[ESA1996]

Hmm... how do I determine which way I go on keyboard / fretboard if I read 'E and A' for example? Because the distance is different depending which way I go to form the interval.

Ah I get it. The devil's interval just means two notes played that have a distance of 6 half steps, which is half an octave. I think it's confusing to say "three whole steps", because there practically is no C flat or F flat, or B sharp and E sharp...

I still don't get how is a scale the same if it's played from the same positions in different tunings! As different notes have different character, and scales are all about a certain character.

If it's a chord one would most likely say the lower note first. If it's a melody that goes, say, E B C A E then there'd be no way to determine whether you go up or down when playing the notes.

Exactly.

What I mean is that E minor in E standard is played with the exact same frets as D minor in D tuning etc. Similarly E major in E tuning is played with the same frets as D major in D tuning. Similarly the pattern of A minor on an E tuned guitar is the same as the pattern of G minor on a D tuned guitar.

The character of notes comes from a system where they would tune a piano to C major. Nowadays they just tune the notes to have equal distances from each other. Back then they tuned every note to sound as good as possible together with a C note. This caused all other scales to be slightly out of tune (The difference is ridiculously small) but it also caused the fact that some pros who'd spent way too much listening to music (Lol) were able to hear differences between the same melody played in C major and, say, E major, claiming that the E major one sounded more happy or sad or spooky than the C major one though the note intervals (Not the frequency intervals as they are what just intonation is all about, just the notes) were the same.

 

[ESA1996]

This one shows a guy playing classical stuff first in C major just intonation, then in C# just intonation and then the modern C equal temperament.

Just intonation is what they used in the times of Beethoven etc. Nowadays everything is tuned in equal temperament so C major and D major sound the same except for the difference in pitch. In just intonation the intervals between the notes would be slightly different and the keys would not only be in a different pitch but sound a tiny bit different too.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Hmm. But different notes have different vibe to them and can be told apart even on different octaves if one has trained ear, right? So it's not just pitch, they have some sound wave characteristic to each of them?