Let's make me a good bassist... tips?

[ESA1996]

Having made some more research into it...

Meantone temperament came first. This one is made to sound good in C major and a few other keys. It will sound a tiny bit out of tune in most keys TLDR: A few scales are exactly in tune while most are out of tune.

Well temperament came second. Not quite as in tune in C major as meantone but this can be used in more keys than meantone without sounding out of tune. TLDR: A handful of scales are extremely near to exact tune while some are slightly out of tune.

Equal tempered is what we use nowadays. All keys sound the same, never quite in tune but never too far from it either. TLDR: Everything is close to being in tune but nothing is exactly in tune.

Now of course a note will always be in tune as there is no law of physics that says an A must be 442 hz instead of, say, 440 hz etc. so everything above applies only to scales and the chords in them.

Also, I don't claim to be an expert with this stuff so there might be mistakes here. Even so I am quite certain that the talk about "tone" and "character" of notes (Keys to be exact, not individual notes) is the result of meantone temperament and well temperament tunings being used before the invention of the modern equal temperament tuning.

 

[ESA1996]

Hmm. But different notes have different vibe to them and can be told apart even on different octaves if one has trained ear, right? So it's not just pitch, they have some sound wave characteristic to each of them?

Some people have (It can not be learned IIRC and I did do some research into it some years ago) what is called perfect pitch and can tell notes apart no matter the octave but AFAIK they do it by pitch alone. I have never heard of anyone claiming to hear a difference between a B and a C note other than pitch.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I understand notes have a "color", they have a unique soundwave map. So it's not possible to transpose a piano half step or full step to either direction, as to make D sound as low as C, cos then it would just become a C note. I'm not sure tho, gets confusing.

Yeah maybe it's just good audio memory...

Maybe it's lack of practice, but when trying to figure notes for a fast melody where the notes are close to each other, especially on high or low pitches, I have trouble telling the exact notes. Not sure if I believe some can naturally tell them out instantly, without practicing to know notes by memory. Maybe they just practice to memorize those notes so much that eventually they announce 'yep, I have absolute note ear'. Heard so many chicks claim that.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Well yes, you hit any interval on piano and they can instantly tell which two notes are being played...

 

[ESA1996]

Well yes, you hit any interval on piano and they can instantly tell which two notes are being played...

If you're playing two notes at the same time that changes things though in general even most of the true pros need to know which key said chord is from, or, if it's only two notes that are being played, they need to know one or the other (Unless they have perfect pitch which they most likely do not have). Anyway, identifying a chord or an interval is possible because different intervals have very distinct characteristics to them. You can try it yourself. Play a minor 3rd and a major 3rd. Even without training you will be able to tell the difference. It gets hard when you have to identify the intervals instead of just thinking is it a major 3rd or a minor 3rd. Also, when identifying chords it becomes hard as there are more than two notes and thus intervals.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Where can I learn those things like diminished, augmented, major, minor, fifths, etc?

 

[ESA1996]

Where can I learn those things like diminished, augmented, major, minor, fifths, etc?

Semitone Interval
0 Perfect unison
1 Minor second
2 Major second
3 Minor third
4 Major third
5 Perfect fourth
6 Augmented 4th / Diminished 5th
7 Perfect fifth
8 Minor sixth
9 Major sixth
10 Minor seventh
11 Major seventh
12 Perfect octave

Learning to identify them can be done by playing them with a piano with your eyes closed. Just play two random notes from the same octave and try to identify the interval.

All the perfect intervals sound very pure. The 3rds and the 6ths sound either happy or sad depending on whether it's a major or minor one. The 2nds, 7ths and the augmented 4 / diminished 5th all sound very dissonant and are almost never used in harmonies and rarely in chords (Unless one listens to Jazz).

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Will it help or hinder my development if I try to instinctively jam along to songs on a fly?

 

[ESA1996]

Will it help or hinder my development if I try to instinctively jam along to songs on a fly?

Assuming by instinctively you mean that you listen to a song and try to play on top of it, hell no. It's a good way to train your ear. Easier than normal tabbing and more enjoyable too. I do this every now and then. Start with simple stuff first so that you actually can get it at least mostly right. Caladan Brood that I mentioned earlier should be easy, at least for guitar it is.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I thought it could be fun or interesting to try jamming over one CD every day. Just curious if it could be misleading to myself and thus dangerous to ear training. I might play completely wrong. But I guess the bassist's job involves "listening to what others do." Well, sounds fun. I've memorized the B Harmonic Minor scale somewhat, but since my bass is inlay-less it's trickier to try any quick shifts from place to place. But you're supposed to be able to play while not looking at the instrument.

 

[ESA1996]

I thought it could be fun or interesting to try jamming over one CD every day. Just curious if it could be misleading to myself and thus dangerous to ear training. I might play completely wrong. But I guess the bassist's job involves "listening to what others do." Well, sounds fun. I've memorized the B Harmonic Minor scale somewhat, but since my bass is inlay-less it's trickier to try any quick shifts from place to place. But you're supposed to be able to play while not looking at the instrument.

Inlays do help yeah. Few people play without looking at their fretboard at all. I can play stuff without looking but whenever I'm going up or down the neck I usually look at what I'm doing or at least take a glance every now and then.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I've the tiny dots on the upper side of the neck, it's better than nothing, but I can avoid looking at them if I want more challenge.

First full album "instinctive playover" (this phrase is now coined) was this evening, Something Wild. I could've probably got away with that live if people were drunk, which makes me think how forgiving the bass can be to untrained ears. Guitar is a whole different story. But... to know exactly what should be played is pretty much as challenging as guitar, not motorically but otherwise; it's not a sports tool after all - the intention is not to fool oneself. This is for ear training etc.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Halo of Blood seems like the easiest Bodom album to hear bass.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I like to take a CD from my metal shelf and put it in my player, then try to play over it with no power on. So far I've done these albums:

Something Wild
Hatebreeder
Follow the Reaper
AYDY (half)
Blooddrunk
Halo of Blood
Relentless
IWC (half)

Doom VS - Aeternum Vale
Skid Row
Swallow the Sun - New Moon

There so much exciting albums waiting, I aim for one album per day. There's no shortcuts to developing the ear, it's become brutally clear. And gotta dive into learning chords soon.

 

[ESA1996]

I like to take a CD from my metal shelf and put it in my player, then try to play over it with no power on. So far I've done these albums:

Something Wild
Hatebreeder
Follow the Reaper
AYDY (half)
Blooddrunk
Halo of Blood
Relentless
IWC (half)

Doom VS - Aeternum Vale
Skid Row
Swallow the Sun - New Moon

There so much exciting albums waiting, I aim for one album per day. There's no shortcuts to developing the ear, it's become brutally clear. And gotta dive into learning chords soon.

You don't really need chords with a bass. Knowing the theory behind them can help in figuring out some stuff but knowing scales should be more helpful I think.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Yea, I read stuff about chords taking too much sonic space with bass. But I read it's more important to learn chords than scales, as you need to recognize the chords you hear so you know which root note to play or what chord notes to play.

 

[ESA1996]

Yea, I read stuff about chords taking too much sonic space with bass. But I read it's more important to learn chords than scales, as you need to recognize the chords you hear so you know which root note to play or what chord notes to play.

That's exactly what it's useful for. Problem is that recognizing chords, especially once you get to stuff that are not just normal majors / minors (Add a 7th, a 9th an 11th etc.) and then, to make it worse, start encountering chords were the root is not the lowest note (E G B from down to up would be an E minor. So would G B E and B E G and if some wants to get fancy, E B G etc), is ridiculously hard. Being able to recognize the scale a song goes in and then using that knowledge to figure out what to play is far easier though not quite as useful.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

What I've been doing at times is finding the melody note on the highest string, then jumping two down & two left to find the same note one octave lower... and sometimes from there jumping one down and seven left to go another octave lower... if I can't figure at all what the bass is playing.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

More albums I played along to. All taught me something, but Symbolic was especially useful.

Swallow the Sun - New Moon
Mgla - Excercises In Futility
Death - Symbolic

 

[Works0fheart]

What do you mean played along to? You learned all of the songs on them on bass or you just sort of sounded your way through them?