Let's make me a good bassist... tips?

[ESA1996]

Natural minor is far more useful than harmonic minor so you should practice it first. Everything but Black Metal uses primarily natural minor. In BM it's probably around 50/50. Not too sure as I don't really listen to any BM. Anyway, chords are useful after knowing a scale, especially for guitar. For bass it's more of a case of you recognizing the chord and it's root note (Bass often plays the root note of a chord). It is possible to separate notes from the muddy mess by ear but it's really damn hard. Once you recognize the scale a song goes in it gets a whole lot easier as you are suddenly facing only 7 notes per octave instead of 11.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I just realized it's not a big deal to memorize natural minor instead of harmonic minor, only difference is natural includes A while harmonic includes A#, other notes are the same.

 

[ESA1996]

I just realized it's not a big deal to memorize natural minor instead of harmonic minor, only difference is natural includes A while harmonic includes A#, other notes are the same.

Yup. Harmonic minor has an augmented 7th, otherwise they are identical.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

What is this thirds and fifths and sevenths stuff I keep hearing all the time?

 

[Inceptionist]

Yeah, learn natural minor scale first

What is this thirds and fifths and sevenths stuff I keep hearing all the time?

Let's say you're playing an A minor scale, A B C D E F G, and you're playing the C major chord from this scale, there's three notes in it. C is one (root note), E is the third (c,d,e), G is the fifth (c,d,e,f,g). It has to do with the interval between the notes. Sevenths follow this same pattern. Like stated above, bass usually plays the root note.

Chords aren't too big for bass, but a good general understanding is that a chord is at least 3 notes made up of two "third" intervals. So in the above example, the C chord (C E G) is a C major. C to E is a major third, E to G is a minor third. That's basically a major chord in a nutshell. Root note, major third, minor third. A minor chord in this case is A C E, that would be root note, minor third, major third this time instead.

The difference between a major and minor third is the number of semitones between one note and the next (interval). So, from A to C, a minor third, there are 3 semitones, which you can basically think of as moving up 3 frets. From C to E, it's a major third, or 4 semitones (4 frets).

 

[ESA1996]

What is this thirds and fifths and sevenths stuff I keep hearing all the time?

SCALES

B Minor:
B C# D E F# G A
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

The 7th note of a B minor is called the 7th, the fourth note of a B minor is called a fourth etc. Similarly the seventh note of an E minor is called a 7th and the fourth note of an E minor is called a 4th. It doesn't matter which scale it is, it always works the same.

CHORDS (In the scale of B Minor)

Bm
C#m-5
D
Em
F#m
G
A

Bm
B D F#
1 3 5

Similar to the scale stuff here. The difference is this:

Em
E G B
1 3 5

Although E is the 4th note of a B minor, when talking about an Em chord it is the 1st note of said chord and thus a 1st. G is the 6th note of a B minor but as it is the 3rd interval from the E chord it is a part of it is called a 3rd when speaking about chords. Same thing with the B. It is the first note of a B minor scale yet it is called a 5th here as it is the 5th interval when counted from E, the root note of the E minor chord.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Should I practise a scale on the fretboard from left to right, right to left, or are there a bunch of positions, like first chunk of notes is while I have my fingers spread on 4 or 5 frets, next position I have my fingers spread on the next 4 or 5 frets? This is still a mystery.

 

[Inceptionist]

Should I practise a scale on the fretboard from left to right, right to left, or are there a bunch of positions, like first chunk of notes is while I have my fingers spread on 4 or 5 frets, next position I have my fingers spread on the next 4 or 5 frets? This is still a mystery.

It's up to you how you'd like to practice them, you can try them starting with a different finger on the root each time, like:

Index
G l ------------------------6-7-9-7-6-------------------------
D l -------------------7-9--------------9-7-------------------
A l ----------7-9-10------------------------10-9-7----------
E l -7-9-10------------------------------------------10-9-7-

Middle
G l ----------------------6-7-9-7-6---------------------------
D l --------------5-7-9--------------9-7-5-------------------
A l ------5-7-9------------------------------9-7-5-----------
E l -7-9---------------------------------------------9-7-5-7-

Pinky
G l --------------------4-6-7-6-4---------------------------------
D l ------------4-5-7---------------7-5-4------------------------
A l ----4-5-7-------------------------------7-5-4----------------
E l -7-------------------------------------------------7-5-3-5-7-

You can do the same starting these scales on the A, D, or G string as well. Memorizing these fingerings, or "shapes" you can think of them as, helps you play in different keys easier. All of these B minor scales start on the B note, so if you are ever playing a song in E minor, all you have to do is play this fingering starting on an E note and you'll be playing in key.

 

[ESA1996]

I'd recommend practicing the scales like this (It's what I do):

G l ---------------------------0-2-4-2-0--------------------------
D l -------------------0-2-4--------------4-2-0------------------
A l ----------0-2-3--------------------------------3-2-0---------
E l -0-2-3-------------------------------------------------3-2-0-

G l ---------------------------2-4-5-4-2--------------------------
D l -------------------2-4-5--------------5-4-2------------------
A l ----------2-3-5--------------------------------5-3-2---------
E l -2-3-5-------------------------------------------------5-3-2-

G l ---------------------------4-5-7-5-4--------------------------
D l -------------------4-5-7--------------7-5-4------------------
A l ----------3-5-7--------------------------------7-5-3---------
E l -3-5-7-------------------------------------------------7-5-3-

G l ---------------------------5-7-9-7-5--------------------------
D l -------------------5-7-9--------------9-7-5------------------
A l ----------5-7-9--------------------------------9-7-5---------
E l -5-7-8-------------------------------------------------9-7-5-

G l ---------------------------7-9-11-9-7---------------------------
D l -------------------7-9-10--------------10-9-7------------------
A l ----------7-9-10--------------------------------10-9-7---------
E l -7-8-10--------------------------------------------------10-8-7-

G l ----------------------------------9-11-12-11-9---------------------------
D l -----------------------9-10-12------------------12-10-9------------------
A l ------------9-10-12----------------------------------------12-10-9---------
E l -8-10-12-------------------------------------------------------------12-10-8-

G l ---------------------------------------11-12-14-12-11---------------------------
D l ---------------------------10-12-14---------------------14-12-10------------------
A l --------------10-12-14-----------------------------------------------14-12-10---------
E l -10-12-14-------------------------------------------------------------------------14-12-10-

The patterns repeat themselves from the 12th fret onward.

 

[mrKRB64]

ESA1996 has given you really good tips & practise scales- just remember to have fun though as it seems like your trying to get good too fast. Motivation is great but you can burn yourself out.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I went thru both of your lessons, it took one hour. I kind of managed to memorize it physically... then it's about getting it down as clear as if seeing the notes in red. The way I remember the scale is on a span of 12 frets there occurs on a single fret: 4 notes on a fret four times, 3 notes two times, 2 notes two times, 1 note two times, 0 notes two times, and just remembering visually and physically where those spots exist.

I'll next dive into Esa's post about chords, I need to grasp an understanding about them...

^I'm having fun too, I like playing over a full CD now and then, just using instinct... In the past I learned some songs by tabs... Now I want to learn theory as well and to know actually how to play an instrument. I wouldn't really do this if I wasn't excited. Sure there's no shortcuts, but I can take certain leapfrogs cos I did play some guitar and keyboard stuff years ago and having dived into music such as Bodom is a good foundation. Got some catching up to do.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I figured an essential thing I need to practice. That is memorizing chords from the scale I'm favoring, then learning ways to play them as arpeggios by using more than one octave... spreading wider on the fretboard to catch a desired note in a different place, jumping octaves.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I now went thru the 7 chords belonging in B minor natural scale. I looked a piano video lesson and then went for those tones on the bass fretboard. They can all be played in the normal shape on three places on the fretboard on 4-string 21 fret bass, except G is in four places. Now I know I could play a chord as arpeggio and if skill is there I could jump from the chord's normal shape to another spot to find other tones, hehe, well it takes time to be able to do that comfortably without much thinking.

I liked to memorize them by first playing the chord from the middle (close to 12th fret), then closer to neck, then closer to bridge, where they may exist...

I can see now that filling too much soundscape isn't the only reason why no actual chords are played on bass usually... it's near impossible to spread fingers that wide, while having punch on the strings, and doing it smooth & fast.

Now, these chords all include 3 tones in them. So can I look for the 7th and 9th only from tones higher in pitch? Or only important thing is that some of the tones are played that belong in the chord being played?

 

[ESA1996]

Now, these chords all include 3 tones in them. So can I look for the 7th and 9th only from tones higher in pitch? Or only important thing is that some of the tones are played that belong in the chord being played?

A default chord always goes up in the intervals. A basic triad has 1, 3 and 5, but chords with the added intervals of 7, 9 (Second an octave higher) 11 (4th an octave higher) and 13 (6th an octave higher) do exist too (Mostly used in jazz though, especially the latter ones). While the standard chords (Where the 1st is the lowest note and the biggest interval the highest) are most common, inverted triads such as a B minor triad when played F# B D instead of the standard B D F# are very common too. I'm not too sure on how common the inverted chords are with 7th chords or the other more complex chords, but they do exist. I seem to remember my theory / guitar teacher mentioning something along the lines of inverted 7+ths being used but mostly in forms where the bottom note is either the 1st, 3rd or the 5th as putting the 7th as the lowest note in, say, a major 7th chord, would result in a minor second between the 7th and the root note which sounds extremely dissonant and thus bad (Sevenths sounds pretty dissonant too but perhaps a bit less so). This can be "fixed" by something that is done quite a bit in jazz AFAIK. What they do is that for the more complex chords the guitar emits the root note, leaving it for the bass. For example a Bm7 would be played with the bass playing a B and the guitar playing D, F# and A (Which is actually a D major triad. Combined with the B played by the bass it becomes a Bm7). When using such a tactic it doesn't really matter whether the 7th is the bottom note or not when inverting chords AFAIK, as the root played by the bass will be the usual 7 intervals below the 7th played by the guitar.

There are also sus4 and sus2 chords (Triad + 4th, triad + 2nd). Something that took me a while to realize is that 6th chords don't exist as they are just inverted 7ths. For example a hypothetical Bm6 chord would consist of B, D F# and G. A Gmaj7 consists of G, B, D and F#. Thus it follows that said hypothetical Bm6 is actually just Gmaj7 / 3 (G major 7th with the 3rd as the bottom note).

 

[(__Joonas__)]

I'll return to that post once I learn some more so I can grasp that.

Any views on how to develop a personal style to play solo by your own? It happens within one scale?

 

[ESA1996]

I'll return to that post once I learn some more so I can grasp that.

Any views on how to develop a personal style to play solo by your own? It happens within one scale?

You can change scales within a solo, but not too often. You can also play chromatic stuff but it's pretty hard to make anything sound good with it (Flight of the Bumblebee is the only song I know that is almost exclusively chromatic). If there is a modulation (The "Eurovision trick" (Quote from you actually ) of lifting the melody up by a few semitones such as the one used in the end of the WIWI chorus) in the backing track the scale used in the solo will change accordingly. Most solos keep to just one scale, but you can do some pretty cool stuff by changing it every now and then (It's just harder to make it sound good. If you succeed it has a decent chance of sounding better than something going in a single scale though).



This one has quite a few key changes. Would require too much effort to find them all but there's one at least at 3:17. Pretty sure there's another one right after the intro but I haven't checked.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Yeah cos I attempt to also learn ways to play by myself and sound atmospheric, not just serving ready songs as a "required invisible element" all the time. And of course, ultimately it would be cool to be able to design songs with the bass.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

Came across this about sound and lacquers:

"If you want to evaluate any musical device, don't look for special features, look for the absence of distortion mechanisms.
For any musical instrument: The absence of plastic lacquer is much more important than what kind of wood is used."

Dude claims he made a cheap ass guitar sound great by removing the lacquer. Well, I bet the selected breed of tree and it's individual quality together mean more than the finish. I read two articles on different lacquers, because I'd like my guitar to be as organic as possible, with just the wood in it's natural beautiful grain shapes and sexy feel, but I'm hesistant to start scraping away the finish as it seems the wood will become spoilt with no protective layer. One day I'll get a bass that looks woody as fuck, one I intend to play for like ever. The one I have is great for its price (it has trans black gloss finish btw) and can serve me for a long time, but if I progress to a worthy level then I'll purchase a dream instrument of course. I love the idea of the surface wearing out where the hand rests and moves, btw, it's this cool, almost romantic effect kinda like a black belt wearing out over time and becoming grayish white thus proving the master has been practicing for a long time - not that this means anything, but it gives a sense of street credibility, hehe.

 

[ESA1996]

Lol at the end

Never heard of someone claiming laquer to affect the sound more than the wood, though I seem to remember Ruokangas (A Finnish custom guitar company) talking about how thin their laquer layers are so I guess it does have some effect on the sound. If one wants to get into nifty details in a guitar, well, I actually want an aluminium guitar They weigh way too much but the sustain would be better than in any wooden guitar. Aluminium is also far more consistent throughout than any wood which would be another plus.

 

[(__Joonas__)]

But wood is magical, it's a (non)living product on mother earth. Just to think the sound goes thru that is epic.

Yeah I read the thinnest lacquers sprayed can be less than a human hair in thickness. Which sounds hard to believe.

What can I practice now??