LOL. I bought one....

[JBroll]

Jeff, I'm sorry you feel that we wouldn't be able to be unbiased about something you posted, but if your solution to that really is the case, now I'm gonna be thinking every "n00b" here is you with another pseudonym! Thanks for spreading the paranoia, jackass

But seriously, I have no problem believing that digital modeling is sounding closer and closer to tubes, because it's a technology that exists to emulate them. But as you of course know, digital modeling and solid state are very different technologies in terms of how they achieve their sound, so Dino's Pod tone doesn't exactly illustrate your point as I see it, cuz it's in no way indicative of a SS tone (even if he's using an SS power amp, the preamp still makes up the bulk of the tone).

It's not that I don't trust a single one of you goofs, I just want completely unbiased feedback whatever it takes. It's probably from taking elementary- and middle-school science fairs too far and other such nonsense, but I'd rather be too safe.

I think that's the fundamental problem with the approach to SS. SS doesn't *have* to sound tubey to sound good.

Technically, digital modelers are as solid-state as it gets. Using solid-state memory to store information, processing using computer chips, and most notable the absence of tubes... from my standpoint, digital is solid-state.

I knew there'd be no problem with digital modeling - the POD gods here alone kill most arguments with that - but solid-state amps offer their own sound, and (at least for the sound I keep going for) letting go of that expectation about solid-state will leave everyone better off. Holding one thing to the standard of only approximating something else will always leave it lacking and never bring about its true potential...

Jeff

 

[Where She Wept]

WSW, how many *tones* were you impressed with, and how many of the SS users were seasoned guys? SS amps still get associated with beginners. Plus, I've heard enough tube amps and their buffoon owners to know they aren't magical in and of themselves, and Dino has one of my favorite live sounds ever with a POD from hell...

(Oh, and it's 'facetious'...)

Jeff

Tube amps that Impressed me:
Rich Ward's Splawn, Powerball, Framus Cobra, ZW Marshall, Tattoo marshall clone, My singer's Voodoo modded 50w JCM800( i plugged it in and instantly had the Carcass heartwork tone!), Roadking, Dual Rec, Mark IV, 5150/6505
Fender Super reverb, My friend's Laney, Bogner Uberschall.... off the top of my head (No pun intended).

Transitor amps:
Randall's are ok and the new Meshuggah disc sounds great.

My first 2 amps were Crate SS amps, which i played for years, so i know the limit's of what they can do.

Yes you can get decent tones from SS amps, but a good tube amp will still blow it away in the end.

 

[JBroll]

I guess I just have different expectations from amps... like 'doesn't have to sound like a tube' or something along those lines. Tubes just don't do anything special for me.

Which Crates did you have, and did you run them through anything but the stock speakers (like impulses) for very long? Those speakers aren't the best, by any shot, so trying one of the Evolution 5 amps into a good cab or impulses might be a pleasant surprise.

Jeff

 

[morta platoon]

Valveking is indeed good, but my friend had one and upgraded to the 6505, worlds apart. But so is the price!
Valveking here $1200 6505 is $2500

then your mate got screwed.picked mine up brand new $1700,6505 that is.

 

[006]

It's funny that Line6, a major player in the industry, recently worked with Bogner to create the Spider Valve. And most all of their amp modeling is based on tube amps that they are trying to mimic. I just find it funny that instead of Line6 trying to emulate a Crate amp...they are trying to emulate a Rectifier, 5150, PowerBall, Marshall, etc. I don't see Line6 getting as big as they have if they would've modeled after SS amps. They emulate tube amps for a reason. And implementing a tube power section only helped the sound...from the combo I played at GC a while back the tones were much smoother, more life-like/organic sounding. That harsh, wierd digital sound wasn't so present. The qualities I dislike about SS and modeling in general were remedied by --- tubes.

Being an engineer I've encountered all kinds of amps through the years. Some of them have been SS, but the rest have all been tube amps. Honestly none of the SS amps sounded good at all. There was one session I remember perfectly, the people using them were not n00bs by any means. They knew their shit, played tight as fuck, knew what mids were, knew how to setup an amp. It's just the SS tone is wierd. Even they didn't like it once it was tracked. We ended up using tube amps on the final product and all of a sudden their guitars were huge, more dynamic, much more lively and organic. We tried for three days to get the tone they wanted from their amp and no dice.

I don't "hate" Dimebag's tone, persay, I have to give credit because he has one of the most recognizable tones of all time. However, I think his tone would only work with how they were using it. SS amps have a tendency to turn into mush when you start playing quickly.

But with all of that said, anybody can make a tube amp sound like shit, just as anybody can make a SS amp sound like shit. In the right hands either can be usable. I just haven't encountered anybody with the right hands yet.

~006

 

[nwright]

On the topic of SS...I honestly have to say I like the new Spider Valve amps.

~006

You know those are tubed amps, right? Tube power sections.

 

[006]

Yes, well aware of their partnership with Bogner on the new Spider Valve series. That's the only reason I like them...not because of Bogner, but because they now sound less digital and more organic.

~006

 

[006]

HAHA BITCHES! Estimated delivery date is this Friday (4/11)!

~006

 

[whitedamp]

I just haven't encountered anybody with the right hands yet.

Meet Andy Sneap.

 

[STINNETT]

They have the Bugera amps in stock at a local music shop.

I tried out the 333 last night and I was VERY impressed.
The crunch channel was like butter. It could get that super smooth, thick sound that I can't even get close to with my 5150.
The tone controls were fantastic, way more responsive than I'm used to from Peavey amps. This made for an extremely wide range of tones. Very satisfying.
The lead channel was so much fatter than my 5150 I would possibly consider a trade. I'm dead serious.
This amp also has an excellent clean channel.

I will definitely be buying one of these amps in the near future.

 

[Metaltastic]

Meet Andy Sneap.

I think we've established that the debate was over Solid-state, not digital modeling

And Metalhead, that sounds fucking awesome that you dug it so much - but don't forget that the 333 is based on the XXX, so it probably has an active eq, which of course is ridiculously more responsive than the passive eq on the 5150, which might account for how responsive it is. Still, the price is right, so grab one!

 

[nwright]

I'm not positive, but I don't *think* the 333 or 333XL have active EQ's, even though they resemble the XXX and JSX, respectively.

 

[scorpio01169]

i am just wondering for the nay sayer's of this Bugera amp. and i mean no disrespect when i say this...but what will it take for you guys to say.....ok this is a good amp. will it take endorsments of say.......James Murphy? or any made metal guitarist out there? it just seems to me that because it's affiliated with behringer that some of you guy are gonna fight till the death that it in no way can live up to the GOD almighty 5150/6505/XXX/JSX. i mean if marshall leaked a line on an amp that was sposed to rival those amps would you meet it with such skeptasism? i think most of you would be anxious to get your hands on it just becase of the name associated with it. i haven't heard the Bugera other than the clips on here, but never once did i have an opinion on this amp until i heard the first clip.

 

[nwright]

Everything I've been reading online from users is that they are dying. The only dude I know who still has a working one is the guy on here.
I've read dealer posts that say the tubes they ship with are bad, and caps are leaking/busting, etc.

So, to me to NOT be a naysayer, the amp just has to hold up, which so far I haven't seen.

 

[STINNETT]

Everything I've been reading online from users is that they are dying. The only dude I know who still has a working one is the guy on here.
I've read dealer posts that say the tubes they ship with are bad, and caps are leaking/busting, etc.

So, to me to NOT be a naysayer, the amp just has to hold up, which so far I haven't seen.

That part I haven't heard anything about.....
That sucks, I'm going to have to look into this.

 

[AdamWathan]

Yeah that was my only concern... Cheap labour usually means poor construction... I'm sure it sounds great, but I don't think they are going to be roadworthy... Could be great studio investments though as long as you baby it.

 

[Metal Overload]

The same a lot of people said about the B-52 AT100, and the thing is a Tank

 

[AdamWathan]

Except apparently every single one of these Bugera amps has already broken down.

 

[STINNETT]

Except apparently every single one of these Bugera amps has already broken down.

Where are you guys hearing this, from people you know or is it all over the internet? I haven't heard it.

 

[AdamWathan]

I'm just reiterating nwrights comments because it seems like Metal Overload didn't see them, I haven't actually looked into anything to do with Bugera at all... However, Harmony Central is probably a good place to look, tons of users there so a bunch of them must own them by now.