Memorial Day is a Joke and so is your Face

[AllShallFall]

What I fail to understand about Memorial Day is that if it is to honor soldiers who died in war, why do people make it out into a day for all veterans and active duty soldiers? Really? Wtf.

 

[J.]

You will not see a vet asking to kiss their ass, and if they do they are a faggot who probably wasn't allowed to re-enlist because he was a douche. You do not have to do anything for memorial or veteran's day.

Nope. Never have. And if one did ask me, I'd laugh in his goddamn camouflage face. It's this Support-Our-Troops society that wants me to kiss their ass because apparently they protect my freedom. Well, I pay them to do that with my tax dollars and then help support them for the rest of my life, so lets call it even. In fact, it might need to be the other way around.

But if I were to say this aloud (which I have, though in a more discreet manner), I will be (and have been) branded unpatriotic. Apparently it's blasphemy these days to have a more reality based view on things as opposed to sheep mentality.

You can define any war as 'old white guys sending the poor to fight the bad guys' because that is basically true, but i'm not going to say these wars are justified or right and personally am against them.

I agree. But again, lets live in reality and say that this poor 20 year old kid died because we want oil, or because some turban wearing assholes are bad dudes that do bad things and American military are just policemen.

I understand that the family of the deceased would rather believe that he died for a good cause, but deep down they have to know the truth.

Now don't even act like we are taken care of or have a lopsided effect after getting out..if you think it's so great being a 25 year old vet starting his freshmen year in college then hot damn turn back the wheels of time and go back and join yourself man. We are definitely the best era of vets comparing to all others, but it's not like i'm guaranteed an easy life from here on out.

If I could go back to 1996 when I graduated high school, I just might join the military. Of course hindsight is 20/20. The first Gulf War was over and the second wouldn't start until 2003, after my 4 years were up. That's neither here nor there.

I'm not a military expert but I know plenty of vets. They get housing help through the VA with NO DOWN PAYMENT (just a funding fee) as long as they can provide a DD214 and COE. Corporations will usually choose a vet over non-vet assuming all things equal because they are a tax break for being hired. The VA takes care of medical, though I have heard the VA isn't the best, but at least you have something, unlike millions of Americans, some of whom are subsidizing your benefits (SEE: yours truly). Then you get a free education and university housing once out of the service instead of going into massive debt like millions of twenty somethings. Not to mention the insane pensions that military members get. I thought America was bankrupt?

I am absolutely NOT saying you have it easy once out. Not at all. But you do have many advantages that non-veterans do not have.

 

[Matt]

In most cases they are guaranteed holidays. And double the amount of vacation is hardly something to handwave.

As far as compensation, I never suggested that military personnel do not do anything (although the 80-20 rule still generally applies). And yes, one of the reasons I got out was because of coming to these conclusions roughly halfway through my enlistment.

45k isn't "glamourous", but it's comfortable at the current level of inflation, and certainly more than the average:



#1: It's not less. Rank does not guarantee extra responsibility either, so you can't just go "NCO - Manager". So comparing age and education level for your average high school educated, 4 year E-5 in the military making 45k to the average civilian peer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

Looks like even those given the benefit of an extra 3 years+ in the labor force are only looking at 32k in income. Let's tack on $5000 to cover the possibility of premium employer health insurance benefits like what is included in military compensation. Still only gets us to 37k, the median still falling short.

#2 You know how military families manage to qualify for many of these assistance programs? Because of the way the military separates all the benefits. Not only is the bar set low for things like WIC, when less than half of your total compensation package is listed as "income", no wonder they can mooch extra money. My wife had an E-7 in charge of her who had his family on food stamps, and kept harassing us to sign up for it because "wouldn't it be nice to have some extra money? Maybe go on some trips/ buy new electronics/etc?" We certainly "qualified". But in reality we didn't need it. Like most of the military on it. Including him. It doesn't matter if you get over 5k per month in cash if only 3k is taxable income. Just like it doesn't matter if a E-5 is taking home 3k if only 1500 is taxable income.

#3. Since when are relocation costs not reimbursed? Having done 3 household moves while in the military, I can assure I was reimbursed each time.



Is the nature of services rendered ever irrelevant to payment?

I have responses in mind for this, but I've lost interest so fuck it.

 

[EffigyForgotten]

What I fail to understand about Memorial Day is that if it is to honor soldiers who died in war, why do people make it out into a day for all veterans and active duty soldiers? Really? Wtf.

Anyone who does obviously doesn't understand what Memorial Day is about, is that to hard to understand?

 

[Balls McHoolihan]

Like I've mentioned before, I'm active duty military and I've never met anyone in the 13 years I've been in that has the "kiss my ass because I'm military" mentality.

 

[monoxide_child]

Like I've mentioned before, I'm active duty military and I've never met anyone in the 13 years I've been in that has the "kiss my ass because I'm military" mentality.

did you join immediately after highschool??

cuz if you did, the majority of the military guys who feel superior to civilians are guys older than you

it was really bad with the veterans of World War II, Korean War, and the guys that really really wanted to be in Veitnam, as opposed to the Veitnam guys who got drafted, soldiers from those wars came home and it was really fucking obvious that they felt vastly superior to civilians, but with the guys in Desert Storm and the guys who saw combat Post 9/11, they're a whole different thing, they don't feel superior to civilians the way the older ones did

 

[Balls McHoolihan]

did you join immediately after highschool??

cuz if you did, the majority of the military guys who feel superior to civilians are guys older than you

it was really bad with the veterans of World War II, Korean War, and the guys that really really wanted to be in Veitnam, as opposed to the Veitnam guys who got drafted, soldiers from those wars came home and it was really fucking obvious that they felt vastly superior to civilians, but with the guys in Desert Storm and the guys who saw combat Post 9/11, they're a whole different thing, they don't feel superior to civilians the way the older ones did

Yes, I did. I joined at 17. I don't get that from anyone I know though. If anything, older people who join who had long lasting jobs before the military miss the civilian work force. There, they had more freedom to do whatever....call in sick if needed (yes, we can be put on quarters, but we still need to be seen by a doctor....so, if we're sick as fuck puking everywhere, we still need to leave the house and have a doctor tell us we're sick), get paid over time, not put up with dip shits, etc. The military tends to want you to hold people's hands who are having difficulty in adapting to their job. Keep walking them through the steps, constantly aiding them. If they fuck up, write them paper work, discipline them, etc, ect. In the civilian work force, your fucking fired if you don't live up to what you should know and what you should be doing. We have to work with some of these people every day and it's frustrating. Now, put these same people in a combat zone and see what happens... Like I was saying though, I personally don't know anyone older than me who thinks they are superior to civilians. Do these people exist in the military? Sure, but there are assholes everywhere.

As for the people from other generations, that is an individual personality thing. Not EVERY troop from those wars felt superior to civilians. There might be one guy who would say, "I was in fucking 'Nam mother fucker, show some respect!", then there might be another guy in his same unit that is quiet and doesn't think anything of it. It's all about the individual in these cases.

 

[rms]

Nope. Never have. And if one did ask me, I'd laugh in his goddamn camouflage face. It's this Support-Our-Troops society that wants me to kiss their ass because apparently they protect my freedom. Well, I pay them to do that with my tax dollars and then help support them for the rest of my life, so lets call it even. In fact, it might need to be the other way around.

But if I were to say this aloud (which I have, though in a more discreet manner), I will be (and have been) branded unpatriotic. Apparently it's blasphemy these days to have a more reality based view on things as opposed to sheep mentality.

I think you are over exaggerating this pressure on veterans, unless you watch Fox News or something where every time they hear Soldier or Marine the next sentence must be to thank them for their service...

I agree. But again, lets live in reality and say that this poor 20 year old kid died because we want oil, or because some turban wearing assholes are bad dudes that do bad things and American military are just policemen.

I understand that the family of the deceased would rather believe that he died for a good cause, but deep down they have to know the truth.

Well all military action is sort of 'police work' if you think of it in that way sa well..Do I think it's bullshit that poor kids are dying for rich people's profits? Yes, but what can I really change about that? I am not pro-war in any of these modern day 'issues' so whatever, it's not as black and white as I join the military to support the war or I don't join because I don't support the war..

If I could go back to 1996 when I graduated high school, I just might join the military. Of course hindsight is 20/20. The first Gulf War was over and the second wouldn't start until 2003, after my 4 years were up. That's neither here nor there.

I'm not a military expert but I know plenty of vets. They get housing help through the VA with NO DOWN PAYMENT (just a funding fee) as long as they can provide a DD214 and COE. Corporations will usually choose a vet over non-vet assuming all things equal because they are a tax break for being hired. The VA takes care of medical, though I have heard the VA isn't the best, but at least you have something, unlike millions of Americans, some of whom are subsidizing your benefits (SEE: yours truly). Then you get a free education and university housing once out of the service instead of going into massive debt like millions of twenty somethings. Not to mention the insane pensions that military members get. I thought America was bankrupt?

I am absolutely NOT saying you have it easy once out. Not at all. But you do have many advantages that non-veterans do not have.

Yeah there is a VA Loan for a house, but you have to be eligible and it's not like many vets who get out(unless you're retired) are using that in the near future..not sure on the specifics because i'm nowhere near that stage in my life...

Yes there are now tax breaks for corporations if they hire Vets, but that is as recent as Obama(if im not mistaken) and was never part of the law..but really, no Vet is using that right away unless they were an Officer or joined with a degree...

Yes I am being taken care of medically since I broke my legs and have some other issues but that is a benefit of being used and abused physically for 4 years...I wish I never had this happen since I will have major surgery in like 20-30 years apparently to fix this issue, but thank god I get 200 bucks a month the rest of my life for fucked up legs

Yes we get free in-state public tuition and a housing check once a month(only while in school), but federal and state grants can really ease that burden as well, I was so poor I made money going to college my first year right after high school...and if none of these assholes don't want student loan debt than fucking join the service after or before they go to college, i'm not feeling bad for any turd burglar who sat at home sucking his mom's tittie for his debt problems..everyone can join one branch or another unless you have some health issue or a crime issue in your past, it's just that those people weren't man enough to sacrifice a few years of their life for not being in debt

 

[Nephilim96]

That's ridiculous but it's hard to get upset because i'm sure you were born in '96 and have no idea of anything and probably some rich ass white kid in Long Beach.

-Yes
-Not rich at all
-It was a poor attempt at sarcasm, and you should chill the fuck out.

 

[Mort Divine]

i'm not feeling bad for any turd burglar who sat at home sucking his mom's tittie for his debt problems..everyone can join one branch or another unless you have some health issue or a crime issue in your past, it's just that those people weren't man enough to sacrifice a few years of their life for not being in debt

i'd sooner work my debt off than fund the US war machine beyond what i have no choice to do from my taxes

 

[J.]

I think you are over exaggerating this pressure on veterans, unless you watch Fox News or something where every time they hear Soldier or Marine the next sentence must be to thank them for their service...

It's not pressure on the soldiers and vets at all. I'm not just talking about thanking them. Forget that. I'm talking about within society how it's almost as if non-vets are second class.

If you look, it's all around us. Veterans get discounts on everything. I've worked retail (veteran discounts), I've worked for a funeral home (free marker and grave), I've worked in mortgage (no down payment). It's simply everywhere, and with the media and politicians doing everything they can to out-blow the other, it's nigh impossible to escape.

In no way is this the vets' fault. Again, it is our Support-Our-Troops society. Nevermind the fact that all tax payers support the troops on the 1st and 15th of every damn month.

Well all military action is sort of 'police work' if you think of it in that way sa well..Do I think it's bullshit that poor kids are dying for rich people's profits? Yes, but what can I really change about that? I am not pro-war in any of these modern day 'issues' so whatever, it's not as black and white as I join the military to support the war or I don't join because I don't support the war..

Sure it is. But what the fuck are our boys doing in goddamn Iraq? If we're going after every bad guy, why the hell didn't we just bomb Cuba or half the damn South American countries? And this is what I'm talking about. Someone needs to tell Mrs. Jones that poor Timmy died because Americans need oil, and not because he was protecting my freedom.

Yeah there is a VA Loan for a house, but you have to be eligible and it's not like many vets who get out(unless you're retired) are using that in the near future..not sure on the specifics because i'm nowhere near that stage in my life...

I'm not sure of the specifics either. All I know is that it is there.

Yes there are now tax breaks for corporations if they hire Vets, but that is as recent as Obama(if im not mistaken) and was never part of the law..but really, no Vet is using that right away unless they were an Officer or joined with a degree...

I believe it is recent. My buddy got a job working in the oilfield with NO experience working on rigs/pumps. He got the job because the company was specifically targeting vets. I'm not sure if he was an officer, but he does not have a degree.

Yes I am being taken care of medically since I broke my legs and have some other issues but that is a benefit of being used and abused physically for 4 years...I wish I never had this happen since I will have major surgery in like 20-30 years apparently to fix this issue, but thank god I get 200 bucks a month the rest of my life for fucked up legs


Yes we get free in-state public tuition and a housing check once a month(only while in school), but federal and state grants can really ease that burden as well, I was so poor I made money going to college my first year right after high school...and if none of these assholes don't want student loan debt than fucking join the service after or before they go to college, i'm not feeling bad for any turd burglar who sat at home sucking his mom's tittie for his debt problems..everyone can join one branch or another unless you have some health issue or a crime issue in your past, it's just that those people weren't man enough to sacrifice a few years of their life for not being in debt

It's not that they weren't man enough. Military life is hardly for everybody. Personally, I don't like authority (which is why I'm on job #4 within 2 years), so some dude yelling at me or telling me to do pushups would just cause me to laugh.

And those turd burglars that are now working to pay off that debt are paying your $200/month and for your education.

I'm not really disagreeing with you on anything here. But it seems to be sacrilege to talk negatively about the military. For example, as much I as I despise FB, I bet if I put up "I support our troops every 1st and 15th of the month", that I'd be hammered by Freedom aint Free dullards.

 

[monoxide_child]

i hate the people that blurt out "freedom ain't free" every single time anyone mentions war or soldiers or terrorism

 

[rms]

i'd sooner work my debt off than fund the US war machine beyond what i have no choice to do from my taxes

How are you not aiding the US War Machine? You think because you don't volunteer that no one else will and it will stop? That loan will probably take most of your life to pay off, and I think the Army pays like 25k a year--must be nice to be able to make that choice

 

[Mort Divine]

How are you not aiding the US War Machine? You think because you don't volunteer that no one else will and it will stop? That loan will probably take most of your life to pay off, and I think the Army pays like 25k a year--must be nice to be able to make that choice

I know I'm not actively fighting against it, but I won't support it through my actions

I'm not going to just betray my principles simply because it'd be more convenient

At any rate under income based repayment loans are forgiven if not paid in full withing 25 years and within 10 if you're working in a government job so I won't be crippled with debt until eternity if I am unable to find a lucrative enough job

 

[rms]

So don't choose some bullshit point of view that you are against the war machine while you apparently plan on being an American taxpayer for the better part of your days. Simply enough, you obviously aren't living in poverty or have tough issues to deal with, so why make the decision to live a more uncomfortable life?

 

[monoxide_child]

i hate the people that blurt out "freedom ain't free" every single time anyone mentions war or soldiers or terrorism

also hate "support our troops"

 

[Mort Divine]

So don't choose some bullshit point of view that you are against the war machine while you apparently plan on being an American taxpayer for the better part of your days. Simply enough, you obviously aren't living in poverty or have tough issues to deal with, so why make the decision to live a more uncomfortable life?

I can't choose to not be an American tax payer without leaving the country and I don't plan on doing that...

beyond what i have no choice to do from my taxes

I quite clearly stated it here.
Because on principle I won't join the military? Are you that dense?

 

[monoxide_child]

i'm not a taxpayer because i'm on a disability check

IRS won't make me pay taxes because my income comes from everyone else's taxes

 

[monoxide_child]

while on the subject of taxes

"income tax" is illegal under the 4th and 5th amendments and also the part of the constitution that says "the government shal not act as a bank"

 

[zbadd]

while on the subject of taxes

"i'm not a taxpayer because i'm on a disability check

IRS won't make me pay taxes because my income comes from everyone else's taxesincome tax" is illegal under the 4th and 5th amendments and also the part of the constitution that says "the government shal not act as a bank"

So my hard working tax paying dollars are going so you can get a disability check, yet that money you get from tax payers you dont have enough common sense to guy find an apartment to rent, you decide to live in a cave (might as well be a van down by the river) and then eat meals at a shelter, funded by tax payers, yet you hate the troops?

Boy if any friends of mine who are ex military saw you on this board and said that or heard you say that you would get your butt whooped so bad and be so messed up that whatever diety you worship would put you back together.

Boy no wonder I notice people on here making fun of you yet you dont know it.

Sounds like to me that you are one of those idiotic sovereign citizens or something.

:hotjump: