metal for dummies part 1

Amon Amarth - Masters of War
Finntroll - Jaktens Tid
Deicide - Blame it on God
Decapitated - Lying and Weak
Dark Tranquillity - Single Part of Two
In Flames - Colony
Katatonia - In Death a song
My Dying Bride - The dreadful hours
Mors Principium Est - Eternity's Child
Children of Bodom - Downfall
Hammerfall - Templars of Steel
Gamma Ray - Solid

I agree with rahvin though.. and CoT's tactics = teh class :D
 
Hitori said:
I see what you mean but personally, if someone didn't have the habit to read, I wouldn't recommend James Joyce's Ulysses as a first try, but something more adequate to the person's experience and reading stage.

if we're comparing reading and listening to music i would have to agree: i'm not going to submit someone who's not into music of any kind to a sudden listening session of very complicated bands. still, not being into metal hardly equates to not being in the habit of listening to music at all. and i would recommend james joyce to someone who's been reading albert camus or jules verne or irvine welsh. i presume the recipient of this compilation already has some interest in rock/pop music at the very least, otherwise - again - it's a battle i can't win and i won't waste time on it.

Music is of course a whole different matter, but by "catchy and accessible" I didn't mean "not intricate or representative of the band/sound", rather a song you think the person will be able to like.

what do you mean? i do find that most catchy and accessible songs are not intricate. they might be representative of a band's sound, but if they are i sort of take it for granted that the listener will enjoy that band without fine-tuning his taste much at all. for instance, it doesn't really take any fondness for metal to appreciate paradise lost's one second. i daresay 80% of the world population would find it perfectly allright. and it's representative of the band's sound (at least for that period), too, but i fail to see the purpose of adding something like that to a record aimed to convert someone to songs which are, ultimately, far more complex and far less melodic than that. auctioned does not prepare anybody for crimson winds.

I wouldn't have been able to even perceive the subtleties. I (and again, maybe it doesn't happen to those more musically oriented) needed to develop some "ear" for it.

this is true to a degree, but i find it hard to believe that one can change from considering something utterly shitty to actively crave for it. now of course some will raise their hands to prove me wrong, but i won't accept it, damn you! :p because i'm convinced that even back when one didn't like, say, entombed, he had a general tolerance for death metal and a desire to return to it and find it out whether there was more to please the ear than what was immediatly obvious.

anyways, imo this is all being overanalized, no wonder people don't start threads here if there's gonna be so much nitpicking

people - and i don't necessarily mean you - start very few threads here because they're not willing to debate their point of view with those who have a different opinion. the level of conversation has dropped to a low hum, and every time somebody raises his voice to make his point (whether it's a valid one or not) this is considered anti-social and a detriment to the community. personally, i think this helps everyone become oversensitive old ladies, happy in their harmless social habits and terrified of even the most friendly confrontations. still, i don't really mind if you don't want other users to point out things they disagree with in your threads: i mostly avoid posting here anyway and, ultimately, nobody will miss yet another list of 12 songs i think may be appropriate for future metal listeners.
 
Hitori said:
anyways, imo this is all being overanalized, no wonder people don't start threads here if there's gonna be so much nitpicking
I just don't see why you're getting so frustrated. People have provided a lot of lists, but I think that without the "nitpicking" threads like this would be boring as hell after submitting one's list. Ok, maybe that's enough for you to get what you want out of this thread, but I wouldn't start wondering about people's thread-making habits just because some people like to discuss the subject as well.

Hitori said:
At least I (and I may be the exception) wouldn't have been able to fully appreciate some of the bands I presently like when I was younger, I wouldn't have been able to even perceive the subtleties. I (and again, maybe it doesn't happen to those more musically oriented) needed to develop some "ear" for it.
This was very true for me as well, certainly. It's just that now that I can appreciate the subtleties maybe I wouldn't want others to get into the catchy stuff first and then the subtle stuff. It's a weird thing, and not necessarily all that positive. I agree that one shouldn't play the hardest-to-perceive bands, but I don't like choice between songs as much as between bands. I don't want people getting into Sentenced through Noose (though there's nothing wrong with that either, there just are better songs for that), or into Opeth with The Drapery Falls. Opeth is a huge problem (and a good example) for me in this respect actually, because I would play something from Still Life, but then I don't know if the non-metal hearing person could get anything out of The Moor. On the other hand The Drapery Falls is such a typical Opeth song that you just can't get any more typical, and getting into that song first could lead to such fallacies as the person liking Blackwater Park more than Still Life.
So I think that what songs/bands you're going to put there depends a lot on how objective you can be. I would just play music that I like, which in other words wouldn't be the catchiest bands/songs, at this point. If you'd want the person to get into metal you should probably play the catchy stuff, but I myself don't have any motivation to get people into metal. I just let (well, make) them listen to music that I like.

And for liking Paradise Lost's One Second, all you need is bad taste. :p :p
 
There are no winners in your game.
Play them some Skepticims, if they still look at you, give them some Blind Guardian for living. Then leave. Let simmer. Maybe you were lucky.
 
La Rocque said:
In the beginning there was Black Sabbath
all after them are just variations of the BS sound -
Paranoid
War Pigs
Iron man
N.I.B
I'm tired of people who go "Black Sabbath was the first metal band, you shall not have bands before Black Sabbath."
Nevertheless, Paranoid is really catchy and Iron Man is a good song too.
 
It all comes down to Elvis

and actually, I'm not getting frustrated at all, and as for "what i want of this thread," I just want something to post in other than the Q&A thread. this could become a discussion about vaccines and immunization for all I care.

and i do not mind when people disagree with me, actually i like arguing (to a certain degree).

I think the problem is I thought Rahvin's ":rolleyes:" smiley was aimed at my bad idea for a thread, when on second analysis he might have been making some sort of joke about the use of the word "record". who knows.

as for new threads, i agree with the thought that most users here are "terrified of even the most friendly confrontations", and i'd like to see more of these friendly confrontations/discussions.

as for the original discussion...

auctioned does not prepare anybody for crimson winds

actually this is just my point. the first DT song I ever heard was "nightfall by the shore of time", and I just did not get into it or enjoy it much. A year later I got Projector as a gift, and I loved it. Of course, it may be the most "accessible"/less harsh/melodic of all DT records, and perhaps experimental or not representative of the band's normal heavy sound. Yet I loved it, and some of its characteristics (clean voice, keyboards etc) hooked me and at the same time made me appreciate some aspects of the music that I wouldnt have normally... so now I quite enjoy The Gallery and Skydancer, when I wouldn't have before. so, you could say that auctioned did prepare me for crimson winds.
 
Hitori said:
I think the problem is I thought Rahvin's ":rolleyes:" smiley was aimed at my bad idea for a thread, when on second analysis he might have been making some sort of joke about the use of the word "record". who knows.

well, in my opinion it was indeed because of the use of the word record. we should probably ask him.
 
Difficult task. I'll aim for fifteen.

Blind Guardian -- I'm Alive.
Gamma Ray -- The Winged Horse.
Marduk -- Beast of Prey.
Cradle of Filth -- Desire in Violent Overture.
Dark Tranquillity -- Indifferent Suns.
Tristania -- Heretic.
Moonspell -- ...Of Dream and Drama (Midnight Ride).
Empyrium -- The Blue Mist of Night.
Tiamat -- (I love that band, tough choice) ----> Light in Extension.
Satyricon -- Mother North.
Strapping Young Lad -- Detox.
Theatre of Tragedy -- Cassandra.
Lacrimosa -- Alleine Zu Zweit.
Therion -- To Mega Therion.
Opeth -- Godhead's Lament.
 
Iron Maiden - fear of the dark
Metallica - back album stuff (barf but you get the idea)
Symphony X - evolution
In Flames - Dialogue with the stars;Jotun;Gyroscope;moonshield;jester's dance.
Dark tranquillity - ThereIn, & alot of damage done stuff.
Soilwork - Entering the angel diabolique

Personally I think the stuff that is very catchy will most likely get someone into metal. Then gradually this person could get into the more harsh metal as he/she developes an ear for it. The speed of that process is different for everyone, back in the days I started with maiden and old metallica and my metal taste grew pretty fast from there to the point where I can now appreciate alot of hardcore stuff from each metal genre. But at first I didn't want anything to do with the death/black metal grunts and screeching but back then it was just noise to me, so first you have to raise someone's intrest with catchy tunes and then just let it happend(or maybe not) you can't really force it anyways but only encourage the open minded person.

so, you could say that auctioned did prepare me for crimson winds

True, that is: In the end it did prepare you. probably what rahvin ment was when you first play Auctioned and then go;Ok now listen to this-Crimson winds right after then it would probably not work. One needs to learn to like it first.
 
I would throw alot of variety to see what connects. It would be like this ( and in this exact order )

Paradise Lost - Enchantment
Emperor - Curse You All Men
Cryptopsy - Phobophile
Dark Tranquillity - The Emptiness From Which I Fed
Andromeda - The Words Unspoken
Lacuna Coil - The Secret
Death - Trapped In A Corner
Angra - Carry On
Exodus - Piranha
Pain Of Salvation - Ashes
Carcass - Tools of the Trade
Cynic - Veil of Maya

See what i mean? Alot of variety, but still representative and more important "metal", if someone doesnt likes at least 1 song out of that list then chances are metal is not for him.
 
Well I don't know. Developing a taste for certain music is tricky business. It could just as well be that a person wouldn't like any of those songs from your list and then you'd play some Metallica, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest or something obvious like that and he'd go "wow!", and then maybe 4 years later you'd make the guy listen to those songs again (assuming that he hasn't heard any of them, which isn't very probable) and he'll like a lot of them.
 
TheFourthHorseman said:
Well I don't know. Developing a taste for certain music is tricky business. It could just as well be that a person wouldn't like any of those songs from your list and then you'd play some Metallica, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest or something obvious like that and he'd go "wow!", and then maybe 4 years later you'd make the guy listen to those songs again (assuming that he hasn't heard any of them, which isn't very probable) and he'll like a lot of them.

Well shit happens, i dont care about what posers listen to 4 years later.
 
if i had to introduce someone to metal, i would focus on the kind of feelings i associate uniquely with that genre of music. i know that in a way it might be construed as weird or even controlling, because certainly people derive different emotions from the same music and they might also interpret lyrics differently. but when i have to present something i like to someone, i think about why i like it and which parts of it have brought me something special that i didn't have from anything else. this also confines me to songs that were especially important when i was a teen, mostly, but whatever... really off the top of my head so i might be forgetting something very important:

1 - iron maiden: alexander the great
2 - paradise lost: mortals watch the day
3 - dark tranquillity: shadow duet
4 - manowar: heart of steel
5 - helloween: longing
6 - running wild: bloody red rose
7 - entombed: hollow man
8 - epidemic: hate
9 - savatage: not who i am
10 - tiamat: visionaire
11 - rage: not forever
12 - pantera: walk
 
The Ruler said:
True, that is: In the end it did prepare you. probably what rahvin ment was when you first play Auctioned and then go;Ok now listen to this-Crimson winds right after then it would probably not work. One needs to learn to like it first.
Well, the first "metal" song i ever listened to was Auctioned. A couple of minutes later i listened to Lethe and i'm hooked ever since.
I guess what did it for me was that i liked Auctioned a lot and wanted to hear more from the same band, and the things i appreciated in the softer song were also in the harder ones, in one way or another.

edit: what plays a big part in turning someone into something you like (wow this sounds bad :p) is turning their attention to the strong and interesting points of the band/song.