Metal recommendations for someone who loves Classical music

[ossa]

I have a physics teacher who recently told our class that in his opinion, music stopped progressing after Bach, and instead has degenerated since the classical period. Naturally, some music lovers in our class were offended by this statement and our teacher encouraged us to challenge him with submissions of new music for him to listen to.

Obviously it's mostly an opinion thing, but I'm still interested in showing him why I think what I listen to is beautiful. I mentioned to him that there actually are some similarities between metal and classical, and that I feel that *in some cases* metal is a modern extension of the classical genre.

So, I'm making a CD for him. If you were doing the same thing, and you wanted to show a lover of classical music that metal can be just as beautiful and complex, what would you put on the CD?

Any suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks-

 

[Einherjar86]

Therion- Secret of the Runes, Gothic Kaballah
Virgin Black- Sombre Romantic, Elegant... and Dying
Nightwish- (check out the song "Ghost Love Score"); all their albums are very symphonic
Rhapsody- Legendary Tales, Symphony of Enchanted Lands
Turisas- The Varangian Way
Dimmu Borgir- Enthrone Darkness Triumphant, Death Cult Armageddon
Moonsorrow- Kivenkantaja

 

[Thoth-Amon]

I have a physics teacher who recently told our class that in his opinion, music stopped progressing after Bach, and instead has degenerated since the classical period. Naturally, some music lovers in our class were offended by this statement and our teacher encouraged us to challenge him with submissions of new music for him to listen to.

Obviously it's mostly an opinion thing, but I'm still interested in showing him why I think what I listen to is beautiful. I mentioned to him that there actually are some similarities between metal and classical, and that I feel that *in some cases* metal is a modern extension of the classical genre.

So, I'm making a CD for him. If you were doing the same thing, and you wanted to show a lover of classical music that metal can be just as beautiful and complex, what would you put on the CD?

Any suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks-

if he actually think's that music has stopped progressing since bach... well that's pretty retarded... the romantics and the modern composers have explored whole musical universes that earlier composers only hinted at

 

[Vossyrus]

Draupnir - Black and Vicious

 

[challenge_everything]

if he actually think's that music has stopped progressing since bach... well that's pretty retarded... the romantics and the modern composers have explored whole musical universes that earlier composers only hinted at

yeah you can't respect a teacher who thinks that... and it sounds like any attempts to convince him otherwise will be futile.

You can start by mentioning Glass, Britten, Schoenberg, Penderecki, Rachmaninov, Gorecki, Ligeti, etc etc

But you could try something from the following bands:

Gorguts (Obscura)
Dream Theater
At the Gates (The Red in the Sky is Ours)
Deathspell Omega (Si Monumentum Requires, Circumspice)
Necrophagist (The onset of Putrefaction)

 

[challenge_everything]

Therion- Secret of the Runes, Gothic Kaballah
Virgin Black- Sombre Romantic, Elegant... and Dying
Nightwish- (check out the song "Ghost Love Score"); all their albums are very symphonic
Rhapsody- Legendary Tales, Symphony of Enchanted Lands
Turisas- The Varangian Way
Dimmu Borgir- Enthrone Darkness Triumphant, Death Cult Armageddon
Moonsorrow- Kivenkantaja

Symphonic does not equal classical. Chances are that someone who loves classical music will hate these.

 

[Zephyrus]

Obsidian Gate

 

[tagradh]

Suprised no one has said Winds yet.

 

[Einherjar86]

Symphonic does not equal classical. Chances are that someone who loves classical music will hate these.

Well, he's not asking for Classical music. He's asking for music that is demonstrably unique, intellectual and progressive. I figured these bands might appeal because of the symphonic elements and obvious influence of Classical music. If this teacher truly doesn't believe that music has progressed, then no recommendations we give will change his mind. There have been plenty of musical movements since Classicism, such as Romanticism and Modernism, not to mention all the forms of twentieth century jazz, blues and rock, which I'm assuming he dislikes as well (I'm also assuming that by "Classical" we mean the specific era, not just any instrumental music with an orchestra). Also, lots of modern symphonic bands have been influenced by soundtrack music, which finds much of its inspiration from Romantic music. I think that an open-minded person would appreciate the bands I've listed.

But, if he truly is a close-minded, stuck up prick who doesn't believe that music has progressed since Bach, then I don't believe there's much we can do for him.

Make him listen to Dvorak too. If he dislikes that, then he's just being stubborn.

 

[The Ozzman]

Yngwie Malmsteen - Concerto Suite for Electric Guitar and Orchestra in Em, Opus 1

 

[Klämrisk]

Opeth - Still life

 

[Hubster]

I have a physics teacher who recently told our class that in his opinion, music stopped progressing after Bach, and instead has degenerated since the classical period. Naturally, some music lovers in our class were offended by this statement and our teacher encouraged us to challenge him with submissions of new music for him to listen to.

Obviously it's mostly an opinion thing, but I'm still interested in showing him why I think what I listen to is beautiful. I mentioned to him that there actually are some similarities between metal and classical, and that I feel that *in some cases* metal is a modern extension of the classical genre.

So, I'm making a CD for him. If you were doing the same thing, and you wanted to show a lover of classical music that metal can be just as beautiful and complex, what would you put on the CD?

Any suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks-

Without derailing the thread (sorry, but I do find this aspect very interesting and have had this conversation with a number of people in the last few years):

Given how music evolved from Medieval (approx 500AD) periods up to the end of the Classical period (1820), your teacher is VERY correct.

However, he is not saying that nothing after the classical period (1750-1820) is not beautiful, but he is saying that music stopped evolving. He is meaning this from the theory and technique level with both instruments and voice.

Note, that with Western Art Music, voice is very much an instrument itself, and in periods of religious & profane music (15th century and earlier), instrumental accompanyment was actually written around voice, and some instruments were designed to emulate the voice, down to materials used for the string construction of bowed instruments.

The music you submit to him will not prove him wrong, it is impossible, because from a theory perspective, he IS correct. There may be a handful of playing or singing techniques (growling is probably the only one) which may have evolved since, but other than this there is little to nothing.

However, your submission can prove to him that beautiful art does still exist. Good luck, I hope from that perspective, you kick his ass ...

I would choose music which is not based on brutality, but is rather more profane. Choose songs which display counterpoint strongly, with strong passages of tonal colour, as these are characteristic which resemble Bach, and he will appreciate them.

Shredding guitar solos could resemble Mozart in regards to the amount of notes played, but comparing an orchestra to one guitarist, who realistically is primitive in comparison, will not work.

The songs you submit to him will need to show the entire band rising and falling throughout the composition: virtuosity in modern music has little in comparison to that of Western Art music because of the amplification of modern instruments, they do not possess the timbre or colour of non-amplified instruments.

Opeth's Still Life is a good place to start as the poster above has mentioned.

PM if you wanna discuss further...

 

[Einherjar86]

^Hm, that's interesting. I find it difficult to fathom though that he doesn't think composers like Dvorak and Mahler evolved from the era Classical era. Romanticism, for instance, presented a new theory of musical production and composition. They used techniques from earlier periods, but for different purposes and effects. I feel that Romanticism was a very evolutionary step towards modern music.

 

[Hubster]

As a matter of personal taste, I find myself losing interest after the Baroque period generally, with perhaps the exclusion of Mozart, Salieri and a few others. Renaissance and Baroque are my specialities.

I also find (personal taste again) that while vocal techniques continued to improve after 1750 up to 1820, the instruments actually regressed in their purpose: scope replaced colour and this is evident by instruments like the harpsichord beng replaced by piano, viols being replaced by cellos (and of course in this context, gut strings being replaced by metal winds and so on).

Music's purpose from a cultural perspective also changed. From that of religiosa and profane, to that of mere entertainment as it is now, today.

As always, it would seem fashion would dictate everything, today is no different...

 

[Burkhard]

Mekong Delta - "Dances Of Death" (a thrash metal rondo)
Sieges Even - "Tangerine Windows Of Solace"
Atrox - "Ruin", "Changeling"
Fates Warning - "Guardian"
Madder Mortem - "Resonatine"

 

[Einherjar86]

As a matter of personal taste, I find myself losing interest after the Baroque period generally, with perhaps the exclusion of Mozart, Salieri and a few others. Renaissance and Baroque are my specialities.

I also find (personal taste again) that while vocal techniques continued to improve after 1750 up to 1820, the instruments actually regressed in their purpose: scope replaced colour and this is evident by instruments like the harpsichord beng replaced by piano, viols being replaced by cellos (and of course in this context, gut strings being replaced by metal winds and so on).

Music's purpose from a cultural perspective also changed. From that of religiosa and profane, to that of mere entertainment as it is now, today.

As always, it would seem fashion would dictate everything, today is no different...

That's funny, I usually tend to lean more towards Romantic composers like Dvorak, Mahler, Bruckner or Wagner. Everybody has their own tastes. You are right about the music taking on more of an entertainment purpose, but it was still rich in meaning and contained multiple, complex layering, I believe. I think some of the most epic symphonies were composed during this era as well.

Sieges Even - "Tangerine Windows Of Solace"

What album is that on?

 

[Seditious]

check ya PMs. (I say this to everyone because that little 'new message' thing in bold at the top of the screen most people don't notice)

 

[Zephyrus]

A better argument would be to say that classical music is the apex of human expression, sound-wise. Metal can approach that, but the difference in instrumentation will throw off anyone who hasn't had much exposure to it.

 

[Hubster]

A better argument would be to say that classical music is the apex of human expression

Totally. You've really summed it up there. Imo, I don't think anything has come close, not by a galaxy, ever since.

 

[Hubster]

That's funny, I usually tend to lean more towards Romantic composers like Dvorak, Mahler, Bruckner or Wagner. Everybody has their own tastes. You are right about the music taking on more of an entertainment purpose, but it was still rich in meaning and contained multiple, complex layering, I believe. I think some of the most epic symphonies were composed during this era as well.

Sometimes I feel like I'm shooting myself in the foot with Western Art music: I wish I felt more compelled to explore the music post-Classical, but my issues with the development of instruments and orchestra sizes really effects my journey.

As much as I don't like much in the way of post 1820, I'm sure there are plenty of incredible pieces and symphonies out there... Dare I say it, Gorecki is a great example.