Morals in metal?

[No Username]

Okay, so I have a question for all of you, regarding tactics in the music industry.

In reference to women in metal, it's pretty obvious that a lot of bands sell sex rather than music. Sometimes, the music is very good, so the sex part is cool. Like.. a girl is a really good singer, and she dresses sexy on stage. Sometimes, the band is "okay", but the singer dresses sexy on stage. Sometimes the band really sucks, and still, she's dressing sexy on stage to help sell the band.

And sometimes you have really outrageous tactics to get people to see the band, like... the girl flashing the audience her boobs, putting naked chicks on the album cover, singing about sex sex and more sex.. ect.

Does it make a difference to you, if the band is good or not? Does the blatant sex-selling annoy you? Or are you cool with it? I know some guys who are either "A-OKAY!" with it all, or it annoys the piss out of them.

How do you personally feel about it? Because honestly, I can't tell if I'm offended or jealous. XD I'm not the type to sell my ass to make a buck, but I don't have a problem with strippers. So why should I have a problem with singing strippers? I'm not exactly sure. If the woman is comfortable with her body, she should do whatever she wants with it, right? Or, is it completely selling out and degrading?

I'm not sure.

What do you think?

...I think that this is supposed to be in the lounge...

Sex is in everything. Too bad for us Tom's wife has so much class...otherwise we might see her boobs.

 

[Corsair]

This is a REALLY good point! Maybe it just looks so weird because the woman is the only one being sexualized; the dudes look like they're just there to be her "back up band".

Case in point, these pictuers are from Delain's FB page:

Not that she's being overtly sexualized, but...I mean...where's the rest of the band?

We can see the one blonde haired guy's face pretty clearly but everyone elses faces are either covered up or completely out of focus. In fact, the pictures might as well not even have them in it, for all the impact they bring to them. I'd hate to be in that position, in a band. It's like "sorry, you don't matter"

 

[spag]

Delain isn't doing that much differently than most other female fronted metal bands. If you have a hot chick, it sells. Go read comments on any of Epica's forums, FB page, etc. It's all about Simone. Maybe the same on Xandria, Within Temptation, etc.

How about this for a question.... How many female fronted bands are there, who are successful, with a woman of just average appearance? I can't personally think of any. Usually they are pretty hot. It sells the band.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Hay, lets be civil, 'kay?

My point was that I'm discussing shit, so lets not get all bitchy.

Don't mind him, he just needs to fill his internet cool points quota.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

"I fuckin' hate you guys.

Now cum on my face."

Hey, people pay big money for girls like that.

 

[BenMech]

Don't mind him, he just needs to fill his internet cool points quota.

Who ARE you?

 

[AeonicSlumber]

Why do you think it makes sense to ask me that after you call someone's perfectly reasonable ideas "dumb?" I'm almost confused by the thought process here. No apology?

 

[Metal_Camden]

Lauren Harris, Steve Harris' daughter. I refuse to listen to female fronted anything these days, because 95% of it is commercial crap. Musical integrity is key with me.

Its a fad, and I'll hide my head in the sand till it passes.

And this makes you about as open minded as a tick. There are tons of "non-watered-down-non-commercial" chick fronted bands out there that are fantastic.

Sex has always helped sell music, prior to the current female fronted band craze. Crap music is crap music. Period. No amount of sexiness will change that.

QFT! It even works the same way in other areas that arnt metal, hell, even for men. Look at the twilight series. stupid buff "tough" looking boys that probably couldn't shoot whisky.

As with most things in our culture, there's a significant double standard when it comes to women and music. Male musicians have been marketed to women for decades and decades, from Elvis to Motley Crue, from the Beatles to the Jonas Brothers. However, as men are more visual by nature, the marketing of female musicians to male consumers typically feels more explicit. That said, it all comes down to the songs. If they suck, than the "artist" looks like what they are; a talentless musician, who's easy on the eyes.

Also true, and some people into music will soley buy a record or a poster just to see the hot chick on the front. Others will refuse to listen to female fronted music as a whole in rebellion or just move on to the next band.

I mean Zod is 100% right. The entire world that we live in, let alone the alpha male uber macho metal scene, is male-dominated. It's socially acceptable for men to be whores and sluts, but heaven forbid if women show a little skin. Why does Lauren Harris get shit for dressing sexy but with dudes...

it's perfectly normal to hop on stage without a shirt.

HAHAHAHAH if it were a chick she would immediately become a whore.

Delain isn't doing that much differently than most other female fronted metal bands. If you have a hot chick, it sells. Go read comments on any of Epica's forums, FB page, etc. It's all about Simone. Maybe the same on Xandria, Within Temptation, etc.

How about this for a question.... How many female fronted bands are there, who are successful, with a woman of just average appearance? I can't personally think of any. Usually they are pretty hot. It sells the band.

Thats true too, it totally helps sell a band to a certain extent. It also renders you into a "group" called "female fronted metal" where people that just hate females in metal in general will just pass by just because.

I remember a show on tour with BG where a guy came up to the merch booth and said, "you know, your music is actually pretty good but i just hate chick singers." I asked ," so you didnt enjoy sabrinas voice?" guy says ,"no, it was good, i just hate female singers in metal..."

Then he went crazy for holy grail. hahahaha

 

[AngraRULES]

QFT! It even works the same way in other areas that arnt metal, hell, even for men. Look at the twilight series. stupid buff "tough" looking boys that probably couldn't shoot whisky.

Hey, I offered to buy shots at the NY show and you said no. I don't think you can handle that either!!

 

[mëtålspëd]

And this makes you about as open minded as a tick. There are tons of "non-watered-down-non-commercial" chick fronted bands out there that are fantastic.

You have no idea of the breadth of my musical tastes, so I'd keep that sweeping generalization to yourself. As for mine? Well I've listened to a shitload of female fronted metal bands, and its all the same crap for the most part. Its akin to the hair metal movement of the late 80s... all flash, very little with substance to back it up.

That's when I first started getting into metal, so I saw the breadth of commercialization that comes with such a gimmick. I am all for high quality female fronted metal, but I'm gonna wait for the dust to settle to see who makes it out of this current 'flash in the pan'. I still listen to Saraya in 2011.. so some female fronted bands do have longevity in my book.

 

[General Zod]

One of my problems with female fronted bands in general is that the female front tends to -utterly- dominate the band's image, and beyond the frontwoman, in most people's minds, the rest of the band is essentially disposable.

This.

 

[Claus / Intromental]

...and beyond the frontwoman, in most people's minds, the rest of the band is essentially disposable.

That goes for most male-fronted metal bands too ... the frontman/woman is the main focal point on and off stage in 99% of the bands.

c.

 

[Metal_Camden]

You have no idea of the breadth of my musical tastes, so I'd keep that sweeping generalization to yourself. As for mine? Well I've listened to a shitload of female fronted metal bands, and its all the same crap for the most part. Its akin to the hair metal movement of the late 80s... all flash, very little with substance to back it up.

That's when I first started getting into metal, so I saw the breadth of commercialization that comes with such a gimmick. I am all for high quality female fronted metal, but I'm gonna wait for the dust to settle to see who makes it out of this current 'flash in the pan'. I still listen to Saraya in 2011.. so some female fronted bands do have longevity in my book.

still for someone that claims to have such longevity in music and to seem to know so much about it, I at least, would think that you would not just "write off" the entire female Genre just because a few bands have ruined it for you over the years...

I mean I cant take some supper proggy stuff but I dont go around saying its all terrible and the same. Myrath is not Dream Theater and Arch Enemy is not Nightwish.

just an observation. but yes I do agree that there seems to be a ton of the same ole same ole coming out, which makes it even harder for someone to take a female fronted band serious.

 

[General Zod]

That goes for most male-fronted metal bands too ... the frontman/woman is the main focal point on and off stage in 99% of the bands.

While I agree that the front-person becomes the focal point for the band, I do think the extent to which the other musicians are seen as disposable, is much, much higher with female-fronted acts.

 

[Mardoch]

With specific reference to Delain, the music is good, but what really draws it all together is Charlotte. She's also extremely attractive, which doesn't hurt anything. Except for, perhaps, the marketability of her male bandmates.

 

[Mardoch]

Two words: ROCK BITCH

(nsfw!!!)

I watched that video twice, and it had nothing to do with boobs. That bassist is badass.

 

[AngraRULES]

Since Nina's point was hypocritical, and pretty dumb, I'm changing the topic. We need MORELS in metal, not morals.

Ben, seriously dude... why?

 

[Corsair]

With specific reference to Delain, the music is good, but what really draws it all together is Charlotte.

Proving my point. The rest of the band is totally written off in a single sentence, and the same could be said of just about every female-fronted metal band that gets any meaningful media attention.

What if she weren't as attractive? Would you still listen to them if the singer were a total dog? I think this sends a defeatist message to a lot of women who might otherwise be interested in playing in a band, but unless they're OMGHAWT, nobody will give even a first look at -even the rest of the band-. Which is totally ridiculous because there are lots of fugly dudes in metal and rock. Hell, I know a pair of ladies who totally rule at their respective instruments (Guitar and bass.) but can't get in bands because nobody takes them seriously. Being 1. Female and 2. Not super hawt makes getting the 'foot in the door' virtually impossible.


And that's straight up bullshit.

 

[Angrafan]

I remember reading back in the day that Rock Bitch would throw a "golden condom" to the crowd during their concerts. The lucky winner got to fuck one of them after the show... I am not sure if it's true, but that's what the article said haha.



Regarding the original post of the thread: Although sexy front women do not bother me one bit (obviously), I tend to agree with metalsped. I am not really a fan of any of those bands... Not because of its image or adverting... But what they are selling usually doesn't appeal to me.

Ironically, my all time favorite band is The Gathering. I think Anneke is heavily associated with their image and music, she was the face of The Gathering for sure. When they blew up with Mandylion back in 95 she was the total opposite of what female singers are today... She wore baggy clothes, didn't look pristine on every shot... Actually, the only picture on the Mandylion booklet was a black and white shot featuring the whole band. Anneke was wearing a sweater. hahahha But she was hot anyway, I am sure it influenced the band's success.

The Gathering might not use super sexy pictures to promote the band, but they also sell an Image. They tried to be modern, sophisticated. They looked like regular guys, and there is an audience for that too. Maybe not as large as Lacuna Coil's, but there is an audience nonetheless.

That appeals to me a lot more: A sophisticated, charming, charismatic woman. I "buy" that Image, I like what they sell.. It appeals to me a lot more than sexy singer with a bunch of dudes in the background...

 

[OrbWeaver]

@TribunalRecords: Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my post. I posted their first album artwork to demonstrate contrast to the STUFF magazine photo. Cristina on that album cover is FAR more classy than how she looks in the other photo. Even though she's naked on that album cover, she's far more covered (and beautiful, IMO) than in the magazine photo.