Nationalism and Homogeneity

i wasn't trying to support or reject u.s. actions with my last few posts. i was just trying to objectively portray history. now if you want to know whether i personally support U.S. actions described in previous posts, the simple answer is no.

Ah.

But, Germany and Japan have been kept down by the allies for many years following the World Wars, which the second was even caused by the allies' treatment of Germany. Through this they were able to keep up their economies and development as leading countries; not because of the US, though there was aid from the US with purely disgusting aims -- but because of national perseverance even through being shit on by the allies for generations.
 
Germany and Japan are where they are largley thanks to the U.S. becoming a world hegemon in the post-world war II era, proping up select allies such as the two aforementioned countries through massive aid, as a basis of economic and strategic might to counter communism/rebellious dissent.

anway, bombs wasn't really the best way for me to make my point. take an African country like the Congo for example. was Mobutu, the brutal dictator propped up by and supported for decades by the United States, smarter then Lumumba, the quasi-communist rebel leader who was assasinated by Mobutu's henchman with CIA support/orchestration? or were they both just dumb my pals? i'm trying to say that in order to understand the Congo, one must have at least a rudimentary understading of U.S. foreign policy/neo-colonial aggression. to chalk it up to IQ is overly simplistic and ignores complex historical processes which i believe shed much more light on sociological conditions.

Good heavens man! IQ overly simplistic? Historical processes?? You are going on about history that has occurred within the lifetime of many a living person. I'm talking more along the lines of the fact that such modern inventions say, the wheel, were unknown to all of Sub-Saharan Africa prior to any intercourse with Europeans.
I will not deny that western interference has directly or indirectly caused untold problems with propping-up tin-pot Dictators, radical Communists and what have you...but that hardly explains the discernable racial differences between native Africans and Caucasians or Asians.
And what of countries in Africa like Ethiopia or Liberia, where no western colonization or the like has historically taken place - these are two of the poorest, most backward parts of the continent to the day. What explains this? Certainly not White wickedness!
 
Ah.

But, Germany and Japan have been kept down by the allies for many years following the World Wars, which the second was even caused by the allies' treatment of Germany. Through this they were able to keep up their economies and development as leading countries; not because of the US, though there was aid from the US with purely disgusting aims -- but because of national perseverance even through being shit on by the allies for generations.

germany and japan were already industrializing before the world wars, so that has something to do with their ability to "keep up" although facing problems around wars. i only wish to make a simple point, that being one can not deny historical international relations when trying to understand present conditions. having a reductionist explanation of IQ simply leaves out much of reality.
 
Good heavens man! IQ overly simplistic? Historical processes?? You are going on about history that has occurred within the lifetime of many a living person. I'm talking more along the lines of the fact that such modern inventions say, the wheel, were unknown to all of Sub-Saharan Africa prior to any intercourse with Europeans.
I will not deny that western interference has directly or indirectly caused untold problems with propping-up tin-pot Dictators, radical Communists and what have you...but that hardly explains the discernable racial differences between native Africans and Caucasians or Asians.
And what of countries in Africa like Ethiopia or Liberia, where no western colonization or the like has historically taken place - these are two of the poorest, most backward parts of the continent to the day. What explains this? Certainly not White wickedness!

both liberia and ethiopia have been exposed to various forms of neo-colonial exploitation. direct colonial takeover is not always necessary for "white wickedness" to have it's influenee.

you obviously value inventions like the wheel, whereas i value the "dumb" my pals forager way of pleistocene africa. obviously technological innovations have added to white people dominating non-white people, but the difference is you seem to value this creativity and expansion whereas i don't. your comment in a previous post about blacks not being able to understand things so standards being lowered obviously denies the many blacks and non-whites who are perfectly capable of fitting into a foucauldian disciplinarian system of western education and succeeding.
 
Germany and Japan are where they are largley thanks to the U.S. becoming a world hegemon in the post-world war II era, proping up select allies such as the two aforementioned countries through massive aid, as a basis of economic and strategic might to counter communism/rebellious dissent.

Ok...look at all the aid Africa gets, many countries around the world get American aid but yet they don't do near as good a Japan for example. Heredity is the explanation.
 
i'm not so sure. wouldn't the phenomenon of native americans adopting euro-americans into their groups and breeding contradict your idea? or am i misunderstanding what you are trying to say?

Ever heard of the trail of tears? Sorry, but a lot of Native Americans rejected the white populations moving into their land...doesn't that contradict your idea?
 
both liberia and ethiopia have been exposed to various forms of neo-colonial exploitation. direct colonial takeover is not always necessary for "white wickedness" to have it's influenee.

you obviously value inventions like the wheel, whereas i value the "dumb" my pals forager way of pleistocene africa. obviously technological innovations have added to white people dominating non-white people, but the difference is you seem to value this creativity and expansion whereas i don't. your comment in a previous post about blacks not being able to understand things so standards being lowered obviously denies the many blacks and non-whites who are perfectly capable of fitting into a foucauldian disciplinarian system of western education and succeeding.

If living in the stone-age is your thing, there are a number of places in the world you can achieve that particular goal. Indeed, not a few parts of Africa aren't all that far from this today.
I honestly have no idea what you are tying to say with the last sentence as it seems to be missing a few critical commas or similar punctuation...so no disrespect intended to yourself or mister Foucault, but I shall just have to take your word for that which you have presented there, as is.
 
Ok...look at all the aid Africa gets, many countries around the world get American aid but yet they don't do near as good a Japan for example. Heredity is the explanation.

this is a typical assumption held by many who are zealously patriotic to their own intellectual detriment. whether you live in the united states or some G8 western european country, you obviously adhere to this assumption. i have come across many people who, while holding strong convictions such as yourself, really only can see part of the picture. for example, you think africa gets so much aid, but in reality, they get a lot less then they could, as well as the fact that the west often supports corrupt regimes in africa that take the aid and fill their personal bank accounts or invest in ridiculous industrial projects/cash crop exportation that wind up creating debt situations that are extremely difficult to get out of. http://www.opendemocracy.net/democracy-africa_democracy/arms_2602.jsp

also, to play along with your perspective, heredity is the answer to what? there are plenty of intelligent people by western standards in all parts of africa, many of who have been part of rebel insurgencies who have been utterly crushed by the west. i say that this has a lot more to do with current conditions then any suppossed "inherent intellectual inferiority."
 
Ever heard of the trail of tears? Sorry, but a lot of Native Americans rejected the white populations moving into their land...doesn't that contradict your idea?

yes, i've heard of the trail of tears, just one more example of the united states' ugly history that it has done almost nothing to remedy because of it's self given right to deny treaties and things of such sorts.

yes, a lot of indians rejected whites encroaching on their land and totally transforming indian ways of life into mirror images of white, civilized ways of doing things. this didn't pressupose that ethnic/"racial" interactions and interbreeding couldn't occur, which they quite profusely did. what makes me skeptical of norsemaden's comment is the idea that these attitudes exhibited by some people in some places at some times imply it is "natural," a common misconception about various human behaviours. that is why i asked if i was misunderstanding what she was trying to say, because if not, i don't think she is right.

here is proof of my point. excerpt from http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/jan98ward.htm

"Whatever else may be said of such processes, they served over time to erase any meaningful genetic distinctions between the groups involved. Indeed, there are recorded instances--as when the Mohawks absorbed significant portions of both the Hurons and the Susquahannocks during the seventeenth century--in which the number of outsiders incorporated into a given society are known to have noticeably exceeded that of the original members. Given these historical circumstances, the contemporary notion of somehow being Mohawk "by blood" is self-evidently ludicrous, albeit no more so than similar claims advanced with respect to the Pawnee, Cherokee, Apache, Paiute or virtually any other native people.

Once non-Indians began to appear in substantial numbers across the hemisphere, the same time-honored principles prevailed. Probably the earliest group of English to have simply melted into a native society were the inhabitants of Raleigh's "lost colony" of Roanoak in 1590. A century later, there were literally thousands of "white Indians"--mostly English and French, but Swedes, Scots, Irish, Dutch and others as well--who, diseased with aspects of their own cultures, had either married into, been adopted by, or petitioned for naturalization as member/citizens of indigenous nations. By then, the phenomenon had become pronounced enough that it had long-since precipitated a crisis among the Puritans of Plymouth Colony and figured in their waging of a war of extermination against the Pequots in 1637.

T'he attraction of "going native" remained so strong, and the willingness of indigenous peoples to accept Europeans into their societies so apparent, that it prevailed even among those captured in Indian/white warfare. During the 1770s, George Croghan and Guy Johnson, both acknowledged authorities on the native peoples of the mid-Atlantic region, estimated that the great bulk of the several hundred English prisoners of all ages and both genders taken by the Indians had been adopted by them rather than being put to death.

The literature of the period is literally filled with observations. Virginia's Lieutenant Governor Francis Fauquier, for example, noted that whites "recovered" from Indians had to be "closely watched [lest] they will certainly return to the Barbarians." Colonel Henry Bouquet, who headed a 1764 expedition to take charge of "captives" returned under terms of a treaty with England by the Shawnees, Miamis and other peoples of the Ohio River Valley, issued orders that "they are to be closely watched and well Secured [as] most of them, particularly those who have been a long time among the Indians, will take the first Opportunity to run away."" The Reverend William Smith, chaplain and chronicler of Bouquet's foray, noted that most younger whites seemed to view their "liberators" as captors and "parted from the savages with tears."

Some, like fourteen-year-old John McCullough, managed to escape Bouquet's column and quickly reunited himself with his native family. Many Indians reciprocated by refusing to surrender those they'd married, adopted, or otherwise accepted especially children-under any but the most coercive circumstances." hi cases where there was no viable alternative, the record is replete with examples of adoptive native parents regularly visiting and otherwise maintaining familial relations with such children for the remainder of their own lives." And, of course, children born of a union between Indian and non-Indian were almost invariably never relinquished at all (not least because whites, not Indians, tended to frown upon such "mixed-blood" offspring and thus made little or no effort to claim them). One upshot is a marked proliferation of European surnames among indigenous peoples, not only in the East but the West as well; witness such sizable contemporary mixed blood families as the Morriseaus, Robideaus, Peltiers and Bellecourts among the Chippewas, and the Pouriers, Gamiers, Amiotts, Roubideauxs, Archambaults and Mousseaus among the Lakotas."
 
If living in the stone-age is your thing, there are a number of places in the world you can achieve that particular goal. Indeed, not a few parts of Africa aren't all that far from this today.
I honestly have no idea what you are tying to say with the last sentence as it seems to be missing a few critical commas or similar punctuation...so no disrespect intended to yourself or mister Foucault, but I shall just have to take your word for that which you have presented there, as is.

not really. most of the planet is infested with the farmer mentality/society, which leads into the industrial mentality/society, so your proposed solution of finding a place to live in africa that would accomodate not simply the stone age, but the pleistocene forager way(which is what i said), is not that easy. i think somewhere between 40 to 50 percent of africa's inhabitants live in cities. not totally sure on this, but the point remains that large segements of africa are heavily urbanized, again something that contradicts your idea. actually, here is proof to back up my claim of african urbanization. "Africa has the world's fastest annual rate of urbanisation. The annual average urban growth rate is 4 per cent, twice as high as Latin America and Asia. Already, 37 percent of Africans live in cities, and by the year 2030 this is expected to rise to 53 per cent." http://www.unhabitat.org/content.asp?cid=943&catid=14&typeid=8&subMenuId=0

my point about education and foucault is that many blacks, just like many people of any skin color/ethnic background, fit into the western education system and contribute valuable things, by western standards, to the development/maintenance of industrial society. all this talk of hereditary inferiority is really quite neglegent of accepting reality. but then again, people are prone to make outrageous statements when their convictions are formed by a partial understanding of something.
 
i'm not so sure. wouldn't the phenomenon of native americans adopting euro-americans into their groups and breeding contradict your idea? or am i misunderstanding what you are trying to say?

Well it would be seriously freaky behaviour and go against the way that wild animals have been scientifically proven to react - Hamilton's Altruism equasion. Do you dispute that "blood is thicker than water"? And animals have an ability to tell their closest kin, not from learning to recognise them, but by other means, particularly recognising a genetic scent.
Dawkin's book "The Selfish Gene" is all about this.

If some Indians were doing as you say, it could be that they had decided there was going to be some kind of tangible benefit from this, such as material goods. Another thing though is that women (like female apes) notoriously are less discriminating about outsiders which the males heavily disapprove of. (Hence the greater dislike of the men of other races by men than by women - also the men particularly don't like any outsider but are less bothered about mating with females as long as they are not in their territory).

Ethnic nepotism in biological groups is extremely strong - but there are always individuals who behave differently from the group and threaten its integrity.

Every ethnic group likes to think of itself as superior - as this is all part of feeling that their lives count for something. I wouldn't knock it.
If all the most worthless people in the world realised they were worthless, they would see no point in living.

Objectively a race should preserve itself for no other reason than that their genes are programming them to behave this way to prevent their extinction.
 
not really. most of the planet is infested with the farmer mentality/society, which leads into the industrial mentality/society, so your proposed solution of finding a place to live in africa that would accomodate not simply the stone age, but the pleistocene forager way(which is what i said), is not that easy. i think somewhere between 40 to 50 percent of africa's inhabitants live in cities. not totally sure on this, but the point remains that large segements of africa are heavily urbanized, again something that contradicts your idea. actually, here is proof to back up my claim of african urbanization. "Africa has the world's fastest annual rate of urbanisation. The annual average urban growth rate is 4 per cent, twice as high as Latin America and Asia. Already, 37 percent of Africans live in cities, and by the year 2030 this is expected to rise to 53 per cent." http://www.unhabitat.org/content.asp?cid=943&catid=14&typeid=8&subMenuId=0

my point about education and foucault is that many blacks, just like many people of any skin color/ethnic background, fit into the western education system and contribute valuable things, by western standards, to the development/maintenance of industrial society. all this talk of hereditary inferiority is really quite neglegent of accepting reality. but then again, people are prone to make outrageous statements when their convictions are formed by a partial understanding of something.

A White man who wishes to live a life as a hunter-gatherer or forager would not survive in a climate like Africa. He would get skin cancer. Our race is suited to live in Europe and it is a commendable wish to live such a simple life. There is nowhere in the Earth where it is really feasible to do so.
As Crucified Spartacus says, most Africans do not live like this. In fact those that do have long been targetted aggressively by the others.

This reminds me of the terrible situation in Papua, a country of native hunter gatherers by tradition, that is undergoing ethnic cleansing by the invading Indonesian hordes. They have killed more than 10% of the population.

Also the Amazonian rainforest Indians are targetted by the agriculturalists who are destroying their precious habitat.

If the world could return to a forager way of life there would be no race mixing but small populations all well separated from eachother.

However this is not a realistic proposition with the way things are in the world now!

Pandora's box has been opened.
 
this is a typical assumption held by many who are zealously patriotic to their own intellectual detriment. whether you live in the united states or some G8 western european country, you obviously adhere to this assumption. i have come across many people who, while holding strong convictions such as yourself, really only can see part of the picture.


To the contrary, we see the reality and we don't dismiss third world standard’s as ‘environmental’. Like Haiti for example, under the French it was one of the most richest islands in the Caribbean…but look at it today a third world hell whole so how does ‘environment’ explain that? It doesn’t, another force is at work here and that is inherited instructions called genes.

Also, lets not get involved in white supremacy here…take a look at the Japanese who have been subjected to discrimination by the white man but yet they have a higher IQ then whites. The Jews also have an average IQ higher the people of European decent despite the fact they have been persecuted within Europe for centuries…some times they brought it on themselves and sometimes they didn’t. Regardless of who’s fault it is, that is an example of heredity rather then ‘‘environment’.

for example, you think africa gets so much aid, but in reality, they get a lot less then they could, as well as the fact that the west often supports corrupt regimes in africa that take the aid and fill their personal bank accounts or invest in ridiculous industrial projects/cash crop exportation that wind up creating debt situations that are extremely difficult to get out of. http://www.opendemocracy.net/democracy-africa_democracy/arms_2602.jsp

Well, at least you admit they get aid, but I guess it isn’t enough right? That goes for American blacks as well, they have received billions upon billions of Federal aid but it still isn’t enough to satisfy people with liberal agendas. But your logic falls to the floor when an individual who can read history compares Rhodesia to Zimbabwe…Rhodesia had the same environment as Zimbabwe and it was identical except for racial demographics. Rhodesia was ruled by whites and at that time they had a very well run country, when the blacks took it over in 1980 the nation fell into third world chaotic nation with white people being targeted for mass murder by a brutal dictator named Robert Mugabe. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate blacks, I just believe in hereditary functions…when you are born you come with instructions, they are called ‘chromosomes’.

You are 100% correct about the West support corrupt regimes over there and this is the post war West the shares the exact same political agenda as you…a leftist hypocritical agenda known as ‘political correctness’. While they condemn imperialism hundreds of years ago, they are doing the exact same thing right now! They is so typical of the left, they are the biggest delusional hypocrites that have murdered millions around the world and destroyed their nations raped their women and children and then claim they have a moral upper hand to ‘racist’ that aren’t even alive anymore! However, some liberals have a very positive view point and don't contradict themselves.


also, to play along with your perspective, heredity is the answer to what? there are plenty of intelligent people by western standards in all parts of africa, many of who have been part of rebel insurgencies who have been utterly crushed by the west. i say that this has a lot more to do with current conditions then any suppossed "inherent intellectual inferiority."

Heredity is responsible for many things, your race, hair color, eye color, the way you function, and to a large extent your intelligence. However, you don’t have to be born like rocket scientist to be intelligent, heredity plays a roll in how fast you learn.

But you don’t need intelligence to survive, you need survival instincts. I don’t really care to much for the whole racial intelligence debate, I classify humans into races, but I don’t concentrate so much on intelligence I just except the reality that it cause of intelligence to a large extent.
 
Well it would be seriously freaky behaviour and go against the way that wild animals have been scientifically proven to react - Hamilton's Altruism equasion. Do you dispute that "blood is thicker than water"? And animals have an ability to tell their closest kin, not from learning to recognise them, but by other means, particularly recognising a genetic scent.
Dawkin's book "The Selfish Gene" is all about this.

If some Indians were doing as you say, it could be that they had decided there was going to be some kind of tangible benefit from this, such as material goods. Another thing though is that women (like female apes) notoriously are less discriminating about outsiders which the males heavily disapprove of. (Hence the greater dislike of the men of other races by men than by women - also the men particularly don't like any outsider but are less bothered about mating with females as long as they are not in their territory).

Ethnic nepotism in biological groups is extremely strong - but there are always individuals who behave differently from the group and threaten its integrity.

Every ethnic group likes to think of itself as superior - as this is all part of feeling that their lives count for something. I wouldn't knock it.
If all the most worthless people in the world realised they were worthless, they would see no point in living.

Objectively a race should preserve itself for no other reason than that their genes are programming them to behave this way to prevent their extinction.

maybe so, but humans do not necessarily reproduce all forms of wild animal behaviour, even in a feral context.

some indians looked for material "benefits" from outsiders, but i doubt every instance of mixing can be seen that way. there are complext psychological motivations that partially may not be recoverable, because of a lack of written record.

i don't think deviating from what could be a norm necessarily threatens a group's integrity. indian peoples were going extinct long before there was serious intermixing of whites and indians. diseaseas, war, etc. played much more devastating roles in threatening group integrity then interbreeding.

i don't think every ethnic group acts as being superior. the word every is a very strong word where exceptions can often be found. i wouldn't dispute a strong tendency towards it though, just not universal. it may well be a product of symbolic thougt/cultural differentiation then any inherent psychological mechanism.

let me add that human animals, as well as wild animals, may care for their own children more then others, partially out of genetic reasons, but this doesn't necessarily imply mixing of races will be avoided or seen as a bad idea, or that people of mixed race will be discriminated against by those who are more "racially pure." that was the main idea i was reacting against, the comment you made about koreans discriminating against mixed race people. i also would add that i think how we conceptualize ourselves socially, in terms of in-groups and out-groups, can be a major determinant of behaviour. on a somewhat different topic, for example, Raymond Kelly in his book Warless Societies and the Origin of War argues that rigidly defining group identiy and membership through complex associations creates the concept of in-group and out-group, thus leading to war/more hostility in forager groups with certain types of social arrangements compared to others who are more peaceful/less group focused, ie. the Mbuti. not sure if this adds clarification or relevance to the topic at hand, but it appears to.
 
A White man who wishes to live a life as a hunter-gatherer or forager would not survive in a climate like Africa. He would get skin cancer. Our race is suited to live in Europe and it is a commendable wish to live such a simple life. There is nowhere in the Earth where it is really feasible to do so.
As Crucified Spartacus says, most Africans do not live like this. In fact those that do have long been targetted aggressively by the others.

This reminds me of the terrible situation in Papua, a country of native hunter gatherers by tradition, that is undergoing ethnic cleansing by the invading Indonesian hordes. They have killed more than 10% of the population.

Also the Amazonian rainforest Indians are targetted by the agriculturalists who are destroying their precious habitat.

If the world could return to a forager way of life there would be no race mixing but small populations all well separated from eachother.

However this is not a realistic proposition with the way things are in the world now!

Pandora's box has been opened.

i agree and wouldn't necessarily propose everyone return to africa. the forager way of life has been successfuly lived in various climates/regions of the world.

those are two good examples of forager destruction by modern civ. people who say "it is easy, just go hunt somewhere if you hate civ," they often are not very cognizant of the type of genocides occuring throughout the world historically and in the present. civ has dynamics of its own, like capitalism and communism, that create certain needs that are not compatible with forager ways of life.

i think the more we tell ourselves things are not realistic, the less realistic they become. that is not to deny difficulty of achieving certain goals, it is more of a warning which could be seen as an invitation to think more creatively about how something percieved to be unrealistic can become realistic. anarchists have been doing this for centuries.
 
I cannot believe you all speak of "IQ" in earnest.

Surely, cognitive difference is. But you're out of your minds if you think some "system" is capable of capturing and evaluating that complexity.

Have we slept through the last century of thought?
 
To the contrary, we see the reality and we don't dismiss third world standard’s as ‘environmental’. Like Haiti for example, under the French it was one of the most richest islands in the Caribbean…but look at it today a third world hell whole so how does ‘environment’ explain that? It doesn’t, another force is at work here and that is inherited instructions called genes.

Also, lets not get involved in white supremacy here…take a look at the Japanese who have been subjected to discrimination by the white man but yet they have a higher IQ then whites. The Jews also have an average IQ higher the people of European decent despite the fact they have been persecuted within Europe for centuries…some times they brought it on themselves and sometimes they didn’t. Regardless of who’s fault it is, that is an example of heredity rather then ‘‘environment’.



Well, at least you admit they get aid, but I guess it isn’t enough right? That goes for American blacks as well, they have received billions upon billions of Federal aid but it still isn’t enough to satisfy people with liberal agendas. But your logic falls to the floor when an individual who can read history compares Rhodesia to Zimbabwe…Rhodesia had the same environment as Zimbabwe and it was identical except for racial demographics. Rhodesia was ruled by whites and at that time they had a very well run country, when the blacks took it over in 1980 the nation fell into third world chaotic nation with white people being targeted for mass murder by a brutal dictator named Robert Mugabe. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate blacks, I just believe in hereditary functions…when you are born you come with instructions, they are called ‘chromosomes’.

You are 100% correct about the West support corrupt regimes over there and this is the post war West the shares the exact same political agenda as you…a leftist hypocritical agenda known as ‘political correctness’. While they condemn imperialism hundreds of years ago, they are doing the exact same thing right now! They is so typical of the left, they are the biggest delusional hypocrites that have murdered millions around the world and destroyed their nations raped their women and children and then claim they have a moral upper hand to ‘racist’ that aren’t even alive anymore! However, some liberals have a very positive view point and don't contradict themselves.




Heredity is responsible for many things, your race, hair color, eye color, the way you function, and to a large extent your intelligence. However, you don’t have to be born like rocket scientist to be intelligent, heredity plays a roll in how fast you learn.

But you don’t need intelligence to survive, you need survival instincts. I don’t really care to much for the whole racial intelligence debate, I classify humans into races, but I don’t concentrate so much on intelligence I just except the reality that it cause of intelligence to a large extent.

man, quite a bit of what you said is really ridiculous, but i guess pointing it out in such blunt terms won't do any good. so i'll elaborate.

haiti was a huge slave economy for the french. post french rule has seen haiti run by various dictators backed with western support/arms sales.

you really hype IQ, don't you? IQ is held to be such a great standard by everyone. even if some people have higher IQ's on average, doesn't mean people with lower IQ's on average could't create the same types of industrial/representative democracies that israel, japan, western europe, the u.s., etc. create. you are a very biologically determinist in your views, something that as i've said doesn't factor in history/international political relations and the dynamics of capitalism. i'm starting to sound like a marxist, but maybe that is because most marxists would find your ideas to be utter rubbish.

rhodesia "very well run"? that is the same thing the west said about saddam hussein in the 80's and general suharto's indonesia in the 70's. the obvious question is, "well run" for who? the elites, obviously. most people never benefitted significantly under either colonial or independent rule, the latter largely because of, once again, international political dynamcis, the military industrial complex, and capital accumulation. elementary sociology my friend.

me, a leftist? :lol: i doubt you are familiar with the concept of post-left anarchy, as espoused by bob black, or anarcho-primitivism, as espoused by john zerzan, two philosophies i have much more affinity with then leftism.

i wouldn't deny heredity plays a role, which may shock you that i admit such a thing, but i think you and others on the board/the world seriously underestimate the various non-hereditary conditions that effect peoples lives. you adhere so much to your ideology you can't really fully see the facts that don't fit into your perspective.
 
I cannot believe you all speak of "IQ" in earnest.

Surely, cognitive difference is. But you're out of your minds if you think some "system" is capable of capturing and evaluating that complexity.

Have we slept through the last century of thought?

"Out of our minds..." Perhaps?
Tell me more about this "century of thought" though. Tell me why IQ test results continue to mirror those on standardized acedemic tests regardless of the perpetually invoked "environmental factors, such as income, city, state or country of residence, family status, etc? While no system to measure something as theoretically intangible as intellectual capacity will be perfect, IQ tests certainly go a long way toward explaining what cannot be otherwise explained. Eveything from earning potential, to general cognitive ability can be and has been at least broadly assessed by these tests.
And despite some recent(and swiftly challenged)attempts to present this racial-gap as closing, actual standardized testing continues to show this "achievement gap" remaining stubbornly present and virtually unchanged -and all this in spite of considerable changes in income levels, living standards and what have you.

Again, obviously no test is going to be the proverbial "be all and end all" of measuring much of anything. It is but one tool in the collective tool-box - but one that still tells us something nothing else adequately does. Dismiss it if you like...but I'm not sure every acedemic revelation born of this "century of thought," particularly the second half which runneth-over with Marxist idealism and the like, is necessarily an improvement over even the most imperfect of "systems."
 
"Out of our minds..." Perhaps?
Tell me more about this "century of thought" though. Tell me why IQ test results continue to mirror those on standardized acedemic tests regardless of the perpetually invoked "environmental factors, such as income, city, state or country of residence, family status, etc? While no system to measure something as theoretically intangible as intellectual capacity will be perfect, IQ tests certainly go a long way toward explaining what cannot be otherwise explained. Eveything from earning potential, to general cognitive ability can be and has been at least broadly assessed by these tests.
And despite some recent(and swiftly challenged)attempts to present this racial-gap as closing, actual standardized testing continues to show this "achievement gap" remaining stubbornly present and virtually unchanged -and all this in spite of considerable changes in income levels, living standards and what have you.

Again, obviously no test is going to be the proverbial "be all and end all" of measuring much of anything. It is but one tool in the collective tool-box - but one that still tells us something nothing else adequately does. Dismiss it if you like...but I'm not sure every acedemic revelation born of this "century of thought," particularly the second half which runneth-over with Marxist idealism and the like, is necessarily an improvement over even the most imperfect of "systems."

By "Century", the thinking that was present in all prior philosophy, if only as residue, that became a serious problem with Kant (especially his antinomies), which fully and explicitly erupted in the last century- the problematic of systematizing thought: Ideology. To embrace this process is to ignore essential developments, to be oblivious to its perforations, to make claims on that which we cannot access.

Furthermore, it is perplexing that on this forum (full of the supposedly questioning and skeptical) such a symbol of technological capitalist systematicity as "IQ" would go unquestioned, even supported. Its mere existence should force an enormous pause, an unrelenting critical appraisal of its conception, formation, propagators, operation, claims, etc.

The fact that IQ correlates with other "standardized tests" and such arbitrary cultural phenomena as earning potential, divorce rates, most popular doritos, whatever, only provides further evidence of its complete irrelevancy. Could anyone be surprised that a test of intelligence in our era would produce results that confirm, with all the glory of scientific "sober-mindedness" (oh, and graphs, don't forget the graphs!), the most "intelligent" as mindless, compliant, inauthentic, mathematical technological imbeciles?

IQ is but one of many constructs that serve to entrench the notion that what is, is be-cause of causes, of reasons, and not merely incidents, primarily through the misuse of statistics (mathematics) and inferences from "correlation" that are erroneously conflated with "causation".

It is merely an affirmation of our systematicity.