Nazism and Asatru

[Bates]

These threads always make for interesting reading.

 

[Tyra]

are they not???

Hey, I asked first! The answer goes to your thinking on the matter, you see. I mean, technically speaking, if a god created the first two people, like Adam and Eve or Ask and Embla, and then we all sprang from them, then that god created all people and not just those that are Germanic, right? Or not? I'm just asking if you can tell me of a source that recounts these particular gods as having created only us Germanic people or a specific source that says that the gods themselves were Germanic. Now, if you believe in the Big Bang and evolution and all, then you have to reconcile your belief in the gods with that. A philosophy can be strictly Germanic. Your ancestors can be strictly Germanic. A lot of other things can be strictly Germanic, but really, can you honestly tell me that the gods and goddesses are Germanic?

At the end of the day, what it comes down to is politics. What Bloodland is getting upset about, I think, is that there seems to be nothing in the religion itself that says "you can only be asatru if you are of Germanic/Indo-European/Scandinavian/Or Whatever descent", and yet some people keep maintaining that there is. I want to see a source, and I want to know how that source has been made to fit that political agenda, just as an exercise in comprehension on my own part.

In the long run, Bloodland, you are the one who wants to be asatru. You have to know who you are, and when you are comfortable with the fact that you've made the right choices in life, then it won't matter if some people think you are a nazi, or a Satan worshipper or any of the other labels that people who don't know you will ascribe to you. It takes time, intense self-knowledge and - you already know this - knowledge in general. Then you can feel comfortable reclaiming some of the symbolism and such, and the funny thing is, that when you get to that point, people will have generally stopped assuming you are one of those lables on their own, because if you give respect, you get respect in return. It's a thing that you earn, and that doesn't happen over night.

 

[Tyra]

These threads always make for interesting reading.

Yes, and the good thing about them is that if you miss one, all you have to do is wait, and another one just like it will come along shortly. Just like a bus. My friend used to say that men are like that, too - like busses, that is - one should never exert oneself running after one, since another one will come along in another ten minutes. These threads are just like that.

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

Please, Tyra. Or am I not getting something here? I mean, not exlusively Germanic, but under that name. I just don't understand why people look to other cultures and so on to find something which they probably could find with their own, and quite possibly become more satisfyed with. That worked for me. It's what the Jews are doing, and it clearly works great for them. I guess the reason why so many people are into the whole Scandinavian/Viking thing is because "ooo they're so cool warriors, proud and good and everything" and that we have a relatively well preserved idea of "what it was like back then".

Noone has mentioned Rigsthula yet, and what is that, but a clear view on racial superiority/classing (confer the Indian Caste system).

Another source worth mentioning is Tacitus who states that the Germanic people hade an understanding of eugenics, something also frowned upon by today's 'humanitarians', socialists, democrates in general etc.

edit: Tyra and I posted at the same time. Sort of. What I mean is, if you're Roman, why should you call the God who leads you in war Tyr and not Mars? This doesn't make sense to me. If you tell me then that Jupiter didn't have an eight legged horse, well, Odin doesn't today. He has a Hummer H2 with jet engines that run on bio-fuel. Once upon a time Tor had a club. Get what I'm saying?

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

Hey, I asked first! The answer goes to your thinking on the matter, you see. I mean, technically speaking, if a god created the first two people, like Adam and Eve or Ask and Embla, and then we all sprang from them, then that god created all people and not just those that are Germanic, right? Or not? I'm just asking if you can tell me of a source that recounts these particular gods as having created only us Germanic people or a specific source that says that the gods themselves were Germanic. Now, if you believe in the Big Bang and evolution and all, then you have to reconcile your belief in the gods with that. A philosophy can be strictly Germanic. Your ancestors can be strictly Germanic. A lot of other things can be strictly Germanic, but really, can you honestly tell me that the gods and goddesses are Germanic?

At the end of the day, what it comes down to is politics. What Bloodland is getting upset about, I think, is that there seems to be nothing in the religion itself that says "you can only be asatru if you are of Germanic/Indo-European/Scandinavian/Or Whatever descent", and yet some people keep maintaining that there is. I want to see a source, and I want to know how that source has been made to fit that political agenda, just as an exercise in comprehension on my own part.

it just doesnt make sense to me. all peoples had their own religion, why take someone elses?
greeks had their gods
slavs had their gods

thats like having a japanese person honoring the egyptian gods...

 

[bloodland]

Hey, I asked first! The answer goes to your thinking on the matter, you see. I mean, technically speaking, if a god created the first two people, like Adam and Eve or Ask and Embla, and then we all sprang from them, then that god created all people and not just those that are Germanic, right? Or not? I'm just asking if you can tell me of a source that recounts these particular gods as having created only us Germanic people or a specific source that says that the gods themselves were Germanic. Now, if you believe in the Big Bang and evolution and all, then you have to reconcile your belief in the gods with that. A philosophy can be strictly Germanic. Your ancestors can be strictly Germanic. A lot of other things can be strictly Germanic, but really, can you honestly tell me that the gods and goddesses are Germanic?

At the end of the day, what it comes down to is politics. What Bloodland is getting upset about, I think, is that there seems to be nothing in the religion itself that says "you can only be asatru if you are of Germanic/Indo-European/Scandinavian/Or Whatever descent", and yet some people keep maintaining that there is. I want to see a source, and I want to know how that source has been made to fit that political agenda, just as an exercise in comprehension on my own part.

In the long run, Bloodland, you are the one who wants to be asatru. You have to know who you are, and when you are comfortable with the fact that you've made the right choices in life, then it won't matter if some people think you are a nazi, or a Satan worshipper or any of the other labels that people who don't know you will ascribe to you. It takes time, intense self-knowledge and - you already know this - knowledge in general. Then you can feel comfortable reclaiming some of the symbolism and such, and the funny thing is, that when you get to that point, people will have generally stopped assuming you are one of those lables on their own, because if you give respect, you get respect in return. It's a thing that you earn, and that doesn't happen over night.

hey tyra...1st yeah you understood 1 reason y im upset... the other is because i know what it means to have something which ppl use in a very bad and degradated way while it is totally different from what ppl made it look like... and example is Satanism... im not a satanist but i have my best friend who is a satanist and the opinion that ppl globally have on satanism is totally different from what it really is... satanism is no harm... ok it may be risky having to deal with demons but worse with spirits whose only aim is to possess you but in the end i say:- If you know what your doing nothing will destruct you.... continuing with this subject your right when you told me that when i'll find myself ppls odd opinions on me will be non-sense at all.... the same applied to my friend... he is still growing up in satanism thus he is not effected by ppls odd opinions about him and his father (Satan).... and such has to be....

10x tyra

 

[Celtik Militia]

i hadn't time to read all such coz it smells of bullshit.. am i right? btw know me before acussing me of being racist coz yor speech is a proof that i am right and you are litteraly mad about such that ur accusing me of being racist.... history tought as all.... that hitler was nothing but a puppet on a string of his generals and so on because they were mentally ill, mate.... the fact that makes me sick most is that 1st nazis used asatru in a bad way so that to attract more power using heritage i.e. for political use... 2nd that people like you still are closed minded and try to be cool justifying nazism and all of its vomitable acts... but such doesn't show how strong you are... far from that.... such show how much afraid you are which in the end we all know that phobia lead many ppl to genocides and other human shit... nazist killed every single jew coz they were afraid that someday they would dominate them.... they even killed poorest ones who had no hope of finding any comfort in society... and if such would have happened genocide is never the solution.... discusions therefore wisdom is always the best way in which everyone could live in peace without damaging future perspectives of others...... there were millions and millions of ways in which they could have dealt with the Jewish immagrants influx.....btw i'll wear for sure an anti-nazist badge of any other accessory and the fact that i'm mad about such situation is because i really care about asatru though i'm still a beginner

Cheers mate and think about it ;-)

what the fuck are you blabbering about now? You obviously didn't understand jack shit about what i was saying.
I never accused you of being racist. LOL man. read my post again.. where did i accuse you of being racist?
Did i try to justify the acts of nazism? no. i did not. You're inventing things, your making me say what you'd like me to say.
And i'm obviously not closed minded if you read my post correctly again, here i'm defending the fact that neo nazis are also allowed to use pagan symbology like everyone else, because that is their freedom. whereas you don't want them to. I'm open minded, you're the one who isn't.
Yeah, sure, nazis are scared. scared for the destruction of their futur. scared for the futur of their children. is that not normal human reaction? You're scared of being thought of as a nazi because you're "pagan". everyone is scared. don't give me that bullshit.

With all my experience of these different "scenes", i can easilly compare you and your idiotic statements with that of a twelve year old sheep.

PS: and yeah, Belgar is right once more.
Bloodland, since Malta is now part of the grotesque European Union, you will surely have the great chance of seeing thousands and thousands of illegal immigrants passing by your island to take a piece of the pie. We'll talk again in 5-10 years when you'd have grown a little and opened your eyes to the imminent catastrophe for your culture, your people and your Asatru that will never achieve its goals under these disastrous circumstances (and i'm measuring my words. i'm a nationalist and my eyes are wide open, i looked away from the media brainwashing my boy).

 

[Bates]

it just doesnt make sense to me. all peoples had their own religion, why take someone elses?
greeks had their gods
slavs had their gods

thats like having a japanese person honoring the egyptian gods...

Religion as relating to heritage... I'm somewhat torn on that. I like the idea of honoring the gods of your ancestors, but at the same time, you must listen to what voice rings true for you. Especially when you have multiple choices in that, or the religion of your ancestors has been completely eradicated.

 

[Celtik Militia]

and for that germanic thing... i too feel that its weird that someone who is not germanic praises a germanic religion. because these pagan religions are not only religions, they are also very old cultures rooted in a people's history.

So many people who are not specifically germanic go around "hailing" Odin and all. Thats just a simple proof that its cause "vikings are cool" as Thelastwithpaganblood said. Its just a cool thing to do. Norse mythology is "grim" too so it pleases metalheads.

But i probably think that because i'm not a true religious believer. i'm pro-pagan, but i don't actually think Odin, or Belenos, or Jupiter are up their sitting on their thrones. Hence, for me, you follow the religion of your people and ancestors. But, if someone of non-germanic blood really believes in Odin like a non-semite can believe in the Judeo-Christian god, well why not. But for me its weird and i feel its more by trend then by true faith.

 

[Bates]

*shrugs* It's hard to say, unless you are that person. I'm pretty much with you on the "atheistic pagan" thing. I like the idea of it being true, but I don't have faith in, well, anything really. I tend to view things more as philosophy then religion, so I don't hate on people for the names they use. Unless it's my name, or one of my kin. THEN the hot irons come out.

 

[Tyra]

What?? You don't like pretty girls worshipping you?? LOL.
I understand what you're saying. It's next to impossible to remove the philospohy from the religion and vice versa, though. I think what it boils down to in this case if whether or not you look at the faith the way some Christians do: everything in the Bible/myths is true, nothing is metaphor for anything and it all really happened, verbatim vs. some of the stuff may have happened but mostly the stories are metaphors for things to teach us an important lesson. Having said that, I so did not choose this religion - I actually loathe all that religion stands for because it is used as a political tool continously and because I am a damn archaeologist. However, these are the gods and goddesses that chose me. There's a fundamental difference, because in that context, I can totally understand why someone would be japanese and asatru. It'd seem weird to me, yes, but who am I to judge who has what religious experience? That's what gods are for.

 

[Bates]

I do have to take that bit back... as often as my name is used as an invective, I'd be a busy, busy man. As far as I can tell, when it comes to the gods, the only ones that talk to me are trying to get me in trouble, hehe.

 

[Tyra]

His name is Loki. LOL.

 

[TheLastWithPaganBlood]

, these are the gods and goddesses that chose me. There's a fundamental difference, because in that context, I can totally understand why someone would be japanese and asatru. It'd seem weird to me, yes, but who am I to judge who has what religious experience? That's what gods are for.

Fair enough, but then again, how many of us have religious experiences (NOT under the influence of drugs)?

 

[Metal head87]

Music itself could be a religious experience.
Well, not religious I guess. Spiritual is the better word.

 

[Nightmare Theater]

Just, my advice on this question is that Asatru don't have direct link with nazism, but some member of this group are interrested by this ideology.

@Krigloch : Why di you hate Islam? Isn't the first goal of germanic religion to fight against Catholisism?

 

[bloodland]

mate, 1st of all i didnt offended you... if you don't know how to talk with diplomacy then you are a total failure in what regards discussions.... 2nd read your post again and you will find somewhere where you accuse me of being me myself a racist...its very clear... 3rd if there was any misconcept i apologise myself, but i acted according to what you've written.... 4th lets give an end to this hot argument before someone gets hurt....lol jokin... seriously, there is no need to put this argument as if it was a declaration of war.... at least there's no need to... 5th try to be more clear when you write!

Merry Yule mate ;-)

and btw... yeah im concerned of the fact that immigrants will invade us all... only if we would stay relaxed over a sofa drinking some Martini and try to forget the problem.... we should be democratic and help deomcracy to work... solving such problem is not easy and it will take time to solve it out... but only with the aid of every single citizen in Malta... unfortunately due to fact that we're only a democracy, a republic and indipendent only a few years ( ranging from 50 - 100 years maximum) we are still immature and do not admire the benefits of democracy and indipendence... in fact the last one has been spit to by the maltese citizens when they voted YES to EU... now a days malta has various problems because much of us were to lazy to protect democracy - which is a living thing - from the continuous attack of the anti-democratic movements such as monopoly and other factors.... such has revealed to have a devastating effect over us all.... immigrants which in turns give rise to extremeism which give rise to tension and anger and so on. and is nazis are scared for their future and their childrens future they would not teach how to murder and to hate for shit reasons enhancing more social problems and non-sense tension in their children... real parents would take care of what to learn their children... the reality is that they are to fanatics of genocides and do not use their heads to solve problems but to promote them because if they would like to solve problems they could demostrate such in roads and pressurise the government... and if possible with the aid of the media.... something which will be of a great threat for the government

"You're scared of being thought of as a nazi because you're "pagan". everyone is scared. don't give me that bullshit". - Celtik Militia

yeah surely im scared (and i am pagan... it doesn't mean that i need to be a german or from the north to be so....even wiccans are pagans...and they are scattered all over the world dumbass lol)... but i do my best to be reasonable... its difficult i admit it... but i have to try, coz i recognize racism is bad.... the only thing that i close my eyes to is to christians... as i said - i can't supress my hate and anger towards those rubbish people... i prefer to mantain balance within myself then suppressing my feeling knowing that someday these feelings will arise.... but after all some christians deserve to die coz they've done too much harm.... for the rest (of christians), the suffocation of their religion is enough... an time will do that until christians will be tiny sects scattered troughout the world.

Merry Yule and may the Gods and Goddesses be with you throught your life, Celtik Militia ;-)

what the fuck are you blabbering about now? You obviously didn't understand jack shit about what i was saying.
I never accused you of being racist. LOL man. read my post again.. where did i accuse you of being racist?
Did i try to justify the acts of nazism? no. i did not. You're inventing things, your making me say what you'd like me to say.
And i'm obviously not closed minded if you read my post correctly again, here i'm defending the fact that neo nazis are also allowed to use pagan symbology like everyone else, because that is their freedom. whereas you don't want them to. I'm open minded, you're the one who isn't.
Yeah, sure, nazis are scared. scared for the destruction of their futur. scared for the futur of their children. is that not normal human reaction? You're scared of being thought of as a nazi because you're "pagan". everyone is scared. don't give me that bullshit.

With all my experience of these different "scenes", i can easilly compare you and your idiotic statements with that of a twelve year old sheep.

PS: and yeah, Belgar is right once more.
Bloodland, since Malta is now part of the grotesque European Union, you will surely have the great chance of seeing thousands and thousands of illegal immigrants passing by your island to take a piece of the pie. We'll talk again in 5-10 years when you'd have grown a little and opened your eyes to the imminent catastrophe for your culture, your people and your Asatru that will never achieve its goals under these disastrous circumstances (and i'm measuring my words. i'm a nationalist and my eyes are wide open, i looked away from the media brainwashing my boy).

 

[Tyra]

@Nightmare: The first goal of asatru is respect. The second is knowledge. The Germanic cultures existed long before Christianity ever reached that far north. There is nothing in any of the asatru myths or texts that I can personally think of that promotes "fight against Catholicism". If there had been, all those people would not have been converted.

 

[Bates]

His name is Loki. LOL.

Yeah, chaos, fire (depending on the translation)... that would be about par for course for me, lol.

 

[Pessimism]

Agnostic for me, counting some of your guys requirements to be a member of any certain pagan religion, you have to know your heritage...something in which many people (including myself) are not able to find out.