Jarkko Mattheiszen
The FU guy.
Ah, I can understand that. I just wanted to emphasize this forum is still a fucking great community for learning about the trade of engineering, though it definitely has changed over the years
New Attack Attack album
- Thread starter ahjteam
- Start date
Ah, I can understand that. I just wanted to emphasize this forum is still a fucking great community for learning about the trade of engineering, though it definitely has changed over the years
scorpio01169
Member
Ah, I can understand that. I just wanted to emphasize this forum is still a fucking great community for learning about the trade of engineering, though it definitely has changed over the years
but you have to admit...reamping, sample placing, and drum programming has taking much of the post around here lately. Look Joey, I agree with you on you found something that works for you. but others are trying so hard to follow you that it has become "bullshit". and you're right, if band pays you to make them sound great when they come to you with shitty sounding equipment or tracks, great but the problem I have is when the attempt is not made to mic a drum or an amp and get it to sound good. I keep hearing alot of guys saying they "didn't have the time". unless you're signed to a label, and they gave you a deadline, you have all the time in the world. whats the hurry? It's the same attitude these young kids have when they pick up an instrument barely learn it and want to get into a band, to only turn around and make four quick shitty songs and then want to go into the studio to record a demo so they can play shows.
joeymusicguy
Member
i'm not going to address most of this thread... except to say that whatever side of the fence you are on, or to whatever degree you straddle it, it has gotten well out of hand.
that said, i'm going to call bullshit on this continuing idiocy of lumping re-amping in with sample replacing/drum programming, extreme to-the-grid drum editing, and auto-tuning. if you wanted/meant to say modeling, then fine... along with 100% sample replacing, drum programming, and auto-tuning, it can be said that there's something "fake" about all of those things.... but re-amping?? this is a mistake i expect high school kids who just don't know what re-amping is to make, not guys on a recording forum that know perfectly well that there's nothing "fake" in any way about re-amping... in fact, re-amping can actually make guitars much more real than they were to start with.
case and point: you track a guitarist in a cramped, untreated bedroom with a pod while taking a D.I., then later re-amp that performance with a nice tube head, cab, mic, and Class A pre-amp, in a nice room that's conducive to good guitar sound. it's now much more real and authentic than it started out. and you could do this a thousand times and still never make it sound more fake, unless you re-amped it through a modeler. this is abc's and 123's of recording people.... clearly re-amping has no business being lumped in with the bashing on the "fake" tools.
never-mind that 99.9% of anyone that's ever posted on this forum couldn't deliver a production that anyone would think of as decent without some measure of use of the above bashed tools, and never-mind the fact that any tool becomes a crutch when overused.
still, at the end of the day you are speaking about taste here... fans of that band clearly like the way they sound. i personally don't, so i don't listen to that particular band. why don't you all just do the same, rather than pissing on their party.
Joey certainly doesn't deserve this abuse.
that said, i'm going to call bullshit on this continuing idiocy of lumping re-amping in with sample replacing/drum programming, extreme to-the-grid drum editing, and auto-tuning. if you wanted/meant to say modeling, then fine... along with 100% sample replacing, drum programming, and auto-tuning, it can be said that there's something "fake" about all of those things.... but re-amping?? this is a mistake i expect high school kids who just don't know what re-amping is to make, not guys on a recording forum that know perfectly well that there's nothing "fake" in any way about re-amping... in fact, re-amping can actually make guitars much more real than they were to start with.
case and point: you track a guitarist in a cramped, untreated bedroom with a pod while taking a D.I., then later re-amp that performance with a nice tube head, cab, mic, and Class A pre-amp, in a nice room that's conducive to good guitar sound. it's now much more real and authentic than it started out. and you could do this a thousand times and still never make it sound more fake, unless you re-amped it through a modeler. this is abc's and 123's of recording people.... clearly re-amping has no business being lumped in with the bashing on the "fake" tools.
never-mind that 99.9% of anyone that's ever posted on this forum couldn't deliver a production that anyone would think of as decent without some measure of use of the above bashed tools, and never-mind the fact that any tool becomes a crutch when overused.
still, at the end of the day you are speaking about taste here... fans of that band clearly like the way they sound. i personally don't, so i don't listen to that particular band. why don't you all just do the same, rather than pissing on their party.
Joey certainly doesn't deserve this abuse.
people are jealous of Joey and thus try to talk shit about his product, but just end up looking like idiots because they (A) aren't making as much money as he is and (B) almost definitely can't create a product as flawless as his is.
/thread
I'm not trying to sound like a suckup or anything here but I have learned quite a few things from Joey, just reading his old posts and shit, and I would be rather pissed if that stopped cause of people talking shit about him. The dude is gracious enough to contribute to the rest of us with things he has learned along the way, which is more than I can say for myself, and you guys just try to shit all over him? It's really fucked up.
/thread
I'm not trying to sound like a suckup or anything here but I have learned quite a few things from Joey, just reading his old posts and shit, and I would be rather pissed if that stopped cause of people talking shit about him. The dude is gracious enough to contribute to the rest of us with things he has learned along the way, which is more than I can say for myself, and you guys just try to shit all over him? It's really fucked up.
Joematthews
Member
- Dec 15, 2007
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Dalinkwent48@aim.com
Be Creative, Get Laid
lets face it times are changing, shit happens, music written and produced with heart and meaning are turning more into a thing of the past and doing what you have to do to get to the polished final result is taking over.The industry is now churning out people who are incredibly good with software versus incredibly good with there own 2 hands,I know im gonna get torn apart for this sentence but, IN A SENSE it is still the same thing,the idea is still in the creators head, its just a matter of which path they take to get the idea out of there head and into the public.
This is an era where electronics and the digital world are evolving full force, people worry more about getting shit done fast rather then getting shit done right, and it will only get worse. Im sure it'll happen over and over again, to those who refuse to modernize, more power to you and you have all the respect from me,and if you can come out ahead of the trend then thats a great accomplishment but i also respect the people who deal with this type of bullshit and do what they have to do to make ends meet, joey even agrees that while hes not the biggest fan of some of the guys he works with, he still keeps his mouth shut and does it and he does a damn good job at it otherwise half the posts on this forum wouldnt be people trying to figure out his techniques. And by doing so he is in a better position then at least 75% of us on here.
The first rule i learned about AE'ing is that there are no rules. If thats the case then why does everyone bash on the people that do things differently? Granted im basically nobody on this forum and also have only been a member for a few months, and thats all well and good with me,its the internet and im not gonna lose any sleep over it, but from what this place was when i first joined to what it is now has been a pretty big change. Its seeming more like people are only signing in to read which n00b posted what stupid question today and how they can go about tearing down said noobs ego with a full on internet rant. We've all done it, myself included. This isnt directed at anyone in particular but the forum as a whole. Theres still alot of people who do come on here and give great advice and are incredibly patient with some of the rediculous questions being posted.
Bottom line-change happens, if you dont like it then dont do it, but if you can keep up with the trends and never change your values or own beliefs through all the rediculous one hit wonders and popular genre changes then I dont see what the problem is.
This is an era where electronics and the digital world are evolving full force, people worry more about getting shit done fast rather then getting shit done right, and it will only get worse. Im sure it'll happen over and over again, to those who refuse to modernize, more power to you and you have all the respect from me,and if you can come out ahead of the trend then thats a great accomplishment but i also respect the people who deal with this type of bullshit and do what they have to do to make ends meet, joey even agrees that while hes not the biggest fan of some of the guys he works with, he still keeps his mouth shut and does it and he does a damn good job at it otherwise half the posts on this forum wouldnt be people trying to figure out his techniques. And by doing so he is in a better position then at least 75% of us on here.
The first rule i learned about AE'ing is that there are no rules. If thats the case then why does everyone bash on the people that do things differently? Granted im basically nobody on this forum and also have only been a member for a few months, and thats all well and good with me,its the internet and im not gonna lose any sleep over it, but from what this place was when i first joined to what it is now has been a pretty big change. Its seeming more like people are only signing in to read which n00b posted what stupid question today and how they can go about tearing down said noobs ego with a full on internet rant. We've all done it, myself included. This isnt directed at anyone in particular but the forum as a whole. Theres still alot of people who do come on here and give great advice and are incredibly patient with some of the rediculous questions being posted.
Bottom line-change happens, if you dont like it then dont do it, but if you can keep up with the trends and never change your values or own beliefs through all the rediculous one hit wonders and popular genre changes then I dont see what the problem is.
Ganks
Member
- Nov 1, 2009
- 518
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- 16
I'm not going to comment on the rest of this thread, because a few of you have said the things that I would say, but I will ask you this..
Why would Joey bother micing up an amp, or micing a piece of shit kit that the band probably brings in?
Why would he drop the large amount of money required to get a good room sound for his drums?
His shit sounds LEGIT.
The albums he produces are selling THOUSANDS of copies.
The bands he produces are touring all over the WORLD!
The albums are getting blasted in cars, home stereos, iPods.. Everything.
Why the FUCK should Joey Sturgis change the way he does things just because one guy on here doesn't get the praise that he does?
He is making a god damned living, people.. Isn't that the ultimate goal?
To do something that you love, and support yourself while doing so?
Well, that's what the fuck Joey is doing.. And that's a lot more than most of us here can say for ourselves.
And Gareth, why are you just flaming on Joey?
Why don't you mention all the other engineers out there who are using Line 6 Products to produce material?
Hmm?
Line 6 is making money.
Joey is making money.
You are making pocket change.
Grow the fuck up, or establish your own sound before you try to rag on someone else's sound?
As I recall, you just recently did a mix, and used samples..
I believe the band fired you from the job, because the mix sounded like shit.
So again, grow the fuck up, establish your own sound, satisfy your customers, and leave other engineers/users here THE HELL ALONE.
PS - Maybe I did comment on the rest of the thread.
PSS - BTW, I believe the thread title says "New Attack Attack Album", so why don't we focus on that?
Why would Joey bother micing up an amp, or micing a piece of shit kit that the band probably brings in?
Why would he drop the large amount of money required to get a good room sound for his drums?
His shit sounds LEGIT.
The albums he produces are selling THOUSANDS of copies.
The bands he produces are touring all over the WORLD!
The albums are getting blasted in cars, home stereos, iPods.. Everything.
Why the FUCK should Joey Sturgis change the way he does things just because one guy on here doesn't get the praise that he does?
He is making a god damned living, people.. Isn't that the ultimate goal?
To do something that you love, and support yourself while doing so?
Well, that's what the fuck Joey is doing.. And that's a lot more than most of us here can say for ourselves.
And Gareth, why are you just flaming on Joey?
Why don't you mention all the other engineers out there who are using Line 6 Products to produce material?
Hmm?
Line 6 is making money.
Joey is making money.
You are making pocket change.
Grow the fuck up, or establish your own sound before you try to rag on someone else's sound?
As I recall, you just recently did a mix, and used samples..
I believe the band fired you from the job, because the mix sounded like shit.
So again, grow the fuck up, establish your own sound, satisfy your customers, and leave other engineers/users here THE HELL ALONE.
PS - Maybe I did comment on the rest of the thread.
PSS - BTW, I believe the thread title says "New Attack Attack Album", so why don't we focus on that?
Lasse Lammert
HCAF Blitzkrieg
GarethSE
New Metal Member
- Jul 5, 2008
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I wasn't even going to post again because for once even I realised I overstepped the fucking mark, but jesus, you guys have just compelled me to post.
Seriously, what the fuck is with this constant settling for secon best? ITS THE DIGITAL ERA SO THATS THE WAY IT IS SO SHUT THE FUCK UP, GET ON YOUR FUCKING KNEES AND SUCK SATANS COCK.
What? Bullshit.
I dunno about anyone else, but I'd rather hear a technically bad band with good ideas than a band with flawless production and fucking terrible songs. There was once a time when bands like Attack Attack would have gotten laughed off the fucking stage, nowadays "THEY'RE CHANGING PEOPLES LIIIIVES MAN. AND I CHANGED THEIR LIVES BY RUNNING THEIR SHIT THROUGH A POD AND FIXING THEIR GODAWFUL PERFORMANCES."
What do you want man? A congratulations? Well done, here's a nobel prize for commitment to polishing fecal matter!
You're basically saying you're fucking proud of the fact that you gave a bunch of talentless fucks who make music for all the wrong reasons all the fame and glory they want? In any other industry or any other universe you'd have to earn the success through hard work, dedication, and sheer fucking soul.
AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO SEES SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS?!
Whether people enjoy their music or not, they should have had to have worked harder than this to achieve fame rather than running to Joey to fix their inadequacies.
I take a huge amount of moral issue with this and all of us as musicians and music lovers should do so.
It totally sums up the world of modern music.
So thanks, Joey, thanks so much for being the personification for all that is wrong with music nowadays.
Seriously, what the fuck is with this constant settling for secon best? ITS THE DIGITAL ERA SO THATS THE WAY IT IS SO SHUT THE FUCK UP, GET ON YOUR FUCKING KNEES AND SUCK SATANS COCK.
What? Bullshit.
I dunno about anyone else, but I'd rather hear a technically bad band with good ideas than a band with flawless production and fucking terrible songs. There was once a time when bands like Attack Attack would have gotten laughed off the fucking stage, nowadays "THEY'RE CHANGING PEOPLES LIIIIVES MAN. AND I CHANGED THEIR LIVES BY RUNNING THEIR SHIT THROUGH A POD AND FIXING THEIR GODAWFUL PERFORMANCES."
What do you want man? A congratulations? Well done, here's a nobel prize for commitment to polishing fecal matter!
You're basically saying you're fucking proud of the fact that you gave a bunch of talentless fucks who make music for all the wrong reasons all the fame and glory they want? In any other industry or any other universe you'd have to earn the success through hard work, dedication, and sheer fucking soul.
AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO SEES SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS?!
Whether people enjoy their music or not, they should have had to have worked harder than this to achieve fame rather than running to Joey to fix their inadequacies.
I take a huge amount of moral issue with this and all of us as musicians and music lovers should do so.
It totally sums up the world of modern music.
So thanks, Joey, thanks so much for being the personification for all that is wrong with music nowadays.
gabriel g.
Member
1.I remember great mixes of Joey with no SSD and POD and no autotune....
2.He found his way to make $$$ and give bands the chance to become so called "rockstars"
I realy dont know whats wrong about that?
3.I dont like most bands he produced, engineered blablabla
so be it. There is no reason to bash him about that.
4.What is wrong with you guyz????
I realy dont understand anything about the Joey bashing!!!!
Joey do your thing, make your money and please stay a POSTING member of this forum.
You give this community great inside info.
AND GARETH:
Dude, please give us a break!!! You seem to be a nice kid with some talent, but please stop!!! There are always two ways to say something and damn dude, you always chose the wrong!!!
And why? Because you piss people off!!! Joey as a person, me as a reader and loyal member of this forum.....
So what the fuck, put your love up your ass and show some respect to long time members who realy has given something to this forum!!!!
2.He found his way to make $$$ and give bands the chance to become so called "rockstars"
I realy dont know whats wrong about that?
3.I dont like most bands he produced, engineered blablabla
so be it. There is no reason to bash him about that.
4.What is wrong with you guyz????
I realy dont understand anything about the Joey bashing!!!!
Joey do your thing, make your money and please stay a POSTING member of this forum.
You give this community great inside info.
AND GARETH:
Dude, please give us a break!!! You seem to be a nice kid with some talent, but please stop!!! There are always two ways to say something and damn dude, you always chose the wrong!!!
And why? Because you piss people off!!! Joey as a person, me as a reader and loyal member of this forum.....
So what the fuck, put your love up your ass and show some respect to long time members who realy has given something to this forum!!!!
GarethSE
New Metal Member
- Jul 5, 2008
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The issue wasn't that the mix sounded like shit, the issue was that "the snare sucks because it's not my snare," and "it's too tight."
Given the raw files I recieved, showing that the band were completely incapable of playing their instruments, I had a choice between either leaving the playing alone and just mixing it, or trying to make them sound like professionals rather than complete amateurs. Considering they were a deathcore band, a genre filled to the brim with all of these production techniques, I figured they'd appreciate it.
I needed the money, so I worked my ass off on making them sound good.
This band was one of those shitty bands you know will never, ever amount to anything. Provide some fucking context before you start talking shit.
Dalinkwent48@aim.com
Be Creative, Get Laid
i don't think there's many here that disagree with you on that very cogent point... unfortunately you couch it in completely unnecessary attack language (no pun intended), and thus overstate your case so egregiously that you are bound to get a contrary reaction. calm it down and make more points like the above, without all the nasty, "i'm entitled to talk shit" nonsense, and you'll be taken more seriously.
and yet another completely unacceptable attack/slander... Deron just publicly warned you in a sticky... i suspect you'll be gone soon.
thank you... yes, it's always interesting to note hypocrisy in the self-righteous.
you have some good principles Gareth, but you do them a disservice with your vitriol, and you make an ass-clown of yourself in the bargain.
in the interest of not seeming a hypocrite myself: i've been known to lash out at smarmy smugsters on here, but i've never simply attacked someone's work the way you have... Joey is a contributing member, not some outsider, nor has he done/said anything personal to anyone here, at least not unprovoked.
yes.
furthermore - I can't see how you can possibly call them talentless considering they created music that thousands and thousands of people enjoy and pay money for.
furthermore upon that furthermore - they still have to get their performances at least kinda close. If you have ever edited drums you should know that you can only do so much, it's more about polishing a good performance into something "larger than life" so to speak, and not as much about fixing a bad one.
Most audio engineers just don't do stuff they like, but if they did, they wouldn't make a living. It's just the direction you choose to take, hobbyist or professional.
I personally would definitely want to be a pro someday, but being a pro AE isn't easy. It's a demanding line of work, plus you'll have to constantly play social games with your clients because people are idiots and don't know what they want, PLUS, if you aren't lucky as hell, 95% of the stuff you do you'll hate musically. But you'll never be asked if you'll like their shit or not, and if you'll be, you're likely going to have to lie to that band.
These are just observations of someone who actually isn't in the field, but I'm studying and being trained for that. In this context, integrity just equals hobby.
Harry Hughes
âââ¬â¬
- Apr 25, 2009
- 4,353
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I'm not gonna join in the flame fest.
I'm not a fan of Attack Attack at all, but I have major respect for Joey's talents.
I mean, people hate on Killswitch Engage because it's not "tr00 metalz".
I mean, fuck, are we going to attack Sneap for having worked with a metalcore band, because metalcore is not melo death, groove metal or thrash and thus "not tr00" and lacking in integrity?
Ridiculous.
I love you Gareth, but please dude, calm the fuck down. I speak to you over msn, and I know you're better than to give fellow Sneap forumites shit for anything, I know you're not an asshole and I know you can a really chilled out, friendly guy.
I can agree with what you're saying, and as I said, I'm not a fan of Attack Attack's music either, but quite frankly, you don't have to a major asshole about it and chances are tomorrow, you'll read what you posted in a better mood, and think "WTF was all this shit I posted, fuck sake".
Send Joey a pm, or whatever, but the public forum isn't the right place for this by any stretch of the imagination
I'm not a fan of Attack Attack at all, but I have major respect for Joey's talents.
I mean, people hate on Killswitch Engage because it's not "tr00 metalz".
I mean, fuck, are we going to attack Sneap for having worked with a metalcore band, because metalcore is not melo death, groove metal or thrash and thus "not tr00" and lacking in integrity?
Ridiculous.
I love you Gareth, but please dude, calm the fuck down. I speak to you over msn, and I know you're better than to give fellow Sneap forumites shit for anything, I know you're not an asshole and I know you can a really chilled out, friendly guy.
I can agree with what you're saying, and as I said, I'm not a fan of Attack Attack's music either, but quite frankly, you don't have to a major asshole about it and chances are tomorrow, you'll read what you posted in a better mood, and think "WTF was all this shit I posted, fuck sake".
Send Joey a pm, or whatever, but the public forum isn't the right place for this by any stretch of the imagination
