New DT Album

[reidie]

On growers I sit in estYMaj’s corner – I agree in part that if something is great you shouldn’t have to try and appreciate it, it should hit you straight away – but there is such a thing as a grower. The biggest example for me personally would be Primus – when I first heard Pork Soda 10 years or so ago, it was so far removed from everything I listened to it took me a while to get – I knew I liked it but it took me a few spins to understand what the fuck it was all about… They are now one of my favourite bands, and that’s probably my favourite album by them!

On wanktastic interludes, like it or not, that’s what the majority of people expect and want from DT – album sales don’t lie. I personally dig them, but agree they have been overused of late and they have struggled to find the balance between melody and wank they had on SFaM… Best wanktastic interlude ever is that in Beyond this life

 

[Postulate]

I think a good point of comparison here is, again, the Arch/Matheos album. Some moments on it are almost fiendishly complex, but everything is written with the song in mind. Dream Theater's instrumentals smack of digression rather than development.

 

[Kenneth R.]

The best wanktastic interlude is none at all. Solid progressive bands don't need those to impress. It's like abusing a thesaurus as an author. You end up sounding far more stupid in the end.

 

[ElvenShadow]

Breaking All Illusions is an amazing song. Overall the album is pretty good but still not among their best.

New Opeth has some AWSOME tunes but theres just too many parts where I'm like "did my mp3 player just run out of batteries?" Seriously... there's no reason to have that much silence in the middle of a song. The album starts off really solid, then in the middle theres really boring songs, and then it ends well. Folklore is my favorite track.

Anyone hear the new Alice Cooper? I have very mixed feelings about that one... I love some of the songs but I cant believe he actually used auto-tune. The moment I heard that I was just like WWWTTTFFFF......

Also, I certainly do feel that some music can be "a grower". There are a lot of Symphony X songs I found somewhat boring when I first got into the band that are now among some of my favorites. Perhaps some people are just a bit too quick to judge.

 

[reidie]

New Opeth has some AWSOME tunes but theres just too many parts where I'm like "did my mp3 player just run out of batteries?"

 

[_Gentleman of_the Snow_]

I just finished placing an order:

New DT
New Opeth
New Wolverine
Beardfish - Mammoth
Magenta - Metamorphosis

I really did not care for Cynthesis - DeEvolution... bored me.
I'm feeling like I should cancel DT after reading the comments, lol... the wankfests are seriously annoying.

New Leprous will most-likely be my album of the year. Everybody here should own it... I don't care who you are!

Ken, you've mentioned that "We're Here Because We're Here" is not completely new once before. What am I missing? I thought it WAS a brand new album... I do love it, regardless!

 

[Postulate]

The best wanktastic interlude is none at all. Solid progressive bands don't need those to impress. It's like abusing a thesaurus as an author. You end up sounding far more stupid in the end.

I think a reaction is the opposite direction is just as bad, though. I have known people who reject anything that's more complex than a three-chord progression as "self-indulgent" or "wank." Yes, you need to write well, but there's an anti-technical bias that I hate, where people dismiss anything even slightly difficult to follow as being worthless. Knowing how to play your instrument is not a bad thing.

 

[reidie]

Yep, or that anything with notes shorter than quavers "Lacks feeling or emotion"!

 

[Detective Clarence Beauregard]

Breaking All Illusions is an amazing song.

I would definitely say that is the strongest song from the new album.

New Opeth has some AWSOME tunes but theres just too many parts where I'm like "did my mp3 player just run out of batteries?" Seriously... there's no reason to have that much silence in the middle of a song. The album starts off really solid, then in the middle theres really boring songs, and then it ends well. Folklore is my favorite track.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the whole ambient low-volume free-time thing, either. Opeth started doing a lot of that stuff on Watershed (probably my least favorite Opeth record), and I felt it broke up and killed the groove of several tracks that would have been better if it had been omitted (looking at you, Lotus Eater). Unfortunately, this new album follows suit, just without growls.

Yes, you need to write well, but there's an anti-technical bias that I hate, where people dismiss anything even slightly difficult to follow as being worthless. Knowing how to play your instrument is not a bad thing.

I understand what you're saying, but DT have had a recent track record of including these overly-technical interludes in any "lengthy" song that don't fit the song at all. Listen to pretty much everything from their debut to Octavarium, and most of the wanky stuff does fit. Does anyone question the instrumental wankfests in Metropolis pt. 1 or anything else from Images & Words? Nope, because they fit the song. The wanky interludes on this new album just seem like they were written after the core of the songs were and just squeezed in there. I've just had enough of the tasteless, off-time for the sake of being off-time, terrible-keyboard-patch-playing-the-same-damn-thing-as-the-guitar interludes. This has been their biggest problem as of late if you ask me. Oh, and LaBrie, but he's always been a problem.

 

[estYMaj]

The same for me which makes me glad I don't have Ken's outlook on this subject.....

Outlook= Bashing

 

[Progbass]

Technical playing has always been a part of progressive music, like it or not. Think about king crimson's discipline or kansas' leftoverture. It impress me if its done melodic way and with a good taste. But yes, these days DT does those wank fests just cuz they can, even it would destroy the songs mood. On the other hand..I've always had respect for fates warning's APSOG, it has almost none of that technical playing but it certainly doesnt need it either.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Outlook= Bashing

He does tend to do often that out here...

Hopefully he's not that way in person!

 

[donKyle]

It's like they have to prove on every album that they can play their instruments. There becomes a point where it's just not necessary for all that

 

[metalxmetalx]

Arch sounds like he channels Ozzy sometimes. I like Ray Alder way better.

Talking of voice, yesterday I saw Judas Priest. Rob Halford: what a singer !!!

 

[Alteredmindeath]

What can we really say about this album besides the fact that it's just more Dream Theater and Dream Theater stays in Dream Theater land.

 

[maximumrocker]

I enjoyed the New DT album

 

[PurpleDink]

Its really, REALLY hard for an 80 minute album to not have some good parts. I listened to about half of the songs from the new album in no order and the only really memorable part i can think of is the instrumental section in Breaking All Illusions. The way it flows just screams classic, pompous DT, and thats about it. Its like JP had a good instrumental song idea going on (one being that 70s porn sounding thing in the middle, that was fucking awesome,) and forgot he had a singer in the band and decided to half ass some chords and vocal phrasings for the first and last 3 minutes. (Actually this is how most DT songs seem to be written.)

I havent gotten around to listen to most of the songs and taken the time to form an opinion, but the reason i havnt taken the time to listen to all of it all the way through (and this is the first time) is that i really dont care about DT as much as i used to. Ill always put their best work on a high pedestal but my taste has grown and so has theirs. Maybe if this album came out 5 years ago i would say its amazing but right now...meh.

TLDR: Meh...i dont care about DT as much as i used to. Iconoclast >/= Heritage >ADTOE

 

[Postulate]

Technical playing has always been a part of progressive music, like it or not. Think about king crimson's discipline or kansas' leftoverture. It impress me if its done melodic way and with a good taste. But yes, these days DT does those wank fests just cuz they can, even it would destroy the songs mood. On the other hand..I've always had respect for fates warning's APSOG, it has almost none of that technical playing but it certainly doesnt need it either.

APSoG has some astounding technicality, it's just very subdued and tasteful. The double-breakdown in Part IV gets me every time. Mark Zonder is an incredible drummer.

 

[intergalactic]

In italian magazines and webzines mostly bad marks and reviews,in my opinion,
apart form the last 2 slow songs, is very good ,expecially "outcry".They didn't
invent anything,but they didn't let down the old fans,songs are very complex
with long instrumental parts.I'd give 8/10

 

[Kenneth R.]

Ken, you've mentioned that "We're Here Because We're Here" is not completely new once before. What am I missing? I thought it WAS a brand new album... I do love it, regardless!

Okay, I guess it was. But I'd already heard half the tunes as they'd released a bunch of PR drum-up singles before releasing it. LONG before releasing it. I guess this is how things are done now and I should just ignore those or be worn out on the songs before they hit the album. My bad.

I think a reaction is the opposite direction is just as bad, though. I have known people who reject anything that's more complex than a three-chord progression as "self-indulgent" or "wank." Yes, you need to write well, but there's an anti-technical bias that I hate, where people dismiss anything even slightly difficult to follow as being worthless. Knowing how to play your instrument is not a bad thing.

Knowing how to play your instrument is an essential basis for good music. Anti-technical bias I agree is just as bad as the wank-worshippers. However, knowing how to play your instrument and cutting to commercial break to PROVE it every song are not the same thing. It's tasteless and I would argue is in fact detracting from "knowing how to play your instrument". Professionals know restraint, when to play and when not to play.

I understand what you're saying, but DT have had a recent track record of including these overly-technical interludes in any "lengthy" song that don't fit the song at all. Listen to pretty much everything from their debut to Octavarium, and most of the wanky stuff does fit. Does anyone question the instrumental wankfests in Metropolis pt. 1 or anything else from Images & Words? Nope, because they fit the song. The wanky interludes on this new album just seem like they were written after the core of the songs were and just squeezed in there. I've just had enough of the tasteless, off-time for the sake of being off-time, terrible-keyboard-patch-playing-the-same-damn-thing-as-the-guitar interludes. This has been their biggest problem as of late if you ask me. Oh, and LaBrie, but he's always been a problem.

Exactly. Virtuosity is neither good nor bad songwriting. If you're a virtuoso, you should have a huge advantage. However, some players just don't "get it" and have to annihilate you with just how good they are. When someone is trying to tell me how awesome they are all the time, I find a way to tune them out and ignore them. I prefer people who show me their awesome ability without bashing you in the face with it - show me with an expertly written song, not a scale exercise.

Outlook= Bashing

Your outlook is defensive. What of it? We disagree.

Technical playing has always been a part of progressive music, like it or not. Think about king crimson's discipline or kansas' leftoverture. It impress me if its done melodic way and with a good taste. But yes, these days DT does those wank fests just cuz they can, even it would destroy the songs mood. On the other hand..I've always had respect for fates warning's APSOG, it has almost none of that technical playing but it certainly doesnt need it either.

YES.

He does tend to do often that out here...

Hopefully he's not that way in person!

I'm a pretty nice person. You shouldn't listen to me say it though, there are a number on here who know me and could tell you one way or the other. I'd prefer not to say that I'm primarily negative, but that I have high standards and current discussions just aren't hitting on the stuff that I would praise. Why don't I start threads about the stuff I like? Maybe I think most of you wouldn't be interested and that it'd be off topic. I do like Symphony X, but that doesn't mean I have to love every one of their albums.

APSoG has some astounding technicality, it's just very subdued and tasteful. The double-breakdown in Part IV gets me every time. Mark Zonder is an incredible drummer.

Awesome, yes.

Sorry for the long post, I just got back to Buenos Aires from somewhere off the map.