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The Ozzman
Melted by feels
Dak
mentat
unknown
fuck ftagn
Vimana
Member
- Mar 2, 2007
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Unfortunately, no. I can't get the red light to face my eyes while I lie down because I have no device on which to mount my red light bulb, and I can't just put my lamp on my bed while I'm blind. The static eventually turned into other noises, but I was rather disappointed. I got more out of I-Doser and this laced weed I smoked. However, drugs are no option for me now.
The Emptier
t3h b3aSt0rZ
zabu of nΩd
Free Insultation
- Feb 9, 2007
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damnromulans
Klingons do not faint
Einherjar86
Active Member
I think the desire some people have for a conspiracy theory is honestly the important and more intriguing aspect of 9/11 than whether or not there was any conspiracy. Regardless of the fact that any solid proof of a conspiracy is never likely to come to light (any confession from an individual, or even group of individuals, will inevitably draw the criticism of wanting attention), the seed has been planted and everyone knows about the 9/11 conspiracy theories, whether they believe them or not. In a sense, it doesn't matter, because all these possibilities are present in the psyche of post-9/11 America.
The 9/11 conspiracy theory(ies) represents a knot in history that people want to see unraveled, convinced of something at its center, when in truth the phenomenon itself, its portrayal in the media, its interpretation by those beyond it, and its impact on culture and politics in the post-9/11 world are far more interesting than whether or not there ever was any conspiracy.
Noam Chomsky and Slavoj Zizek (along with several others; another interesting cultural theoriest who looks at homeland security after 9/11 is Harvey Molotch from NYU) have made it clear that, in the wake of 9/11, the government has taken advantage of a new fracture or trauma at the heart of the American people and the world. We're in a new age of politics and security, that's for certain; but it doesn't matter whether or not the government devised any conspiracy theory to concoct a scenario in which they could manipulate the patriotism and fear of its citizens. They're doing that, regardless of any conspiracy.
The revelation of a conspiracy wouldn't actually point us to anything new. Obviously our government will go to extensive and questionable means to control its citizenry, but we don't need proof of a conspiracy theory to show us that. Their actions in the wake of 9/11 tell us all we need to know.
Cronopio
Glorious Imperator
Dak
mentat
I agree. However, so many are quick to fall prey to the fear mongering around "terrorist " attacks, surrendering liberty for the illusion of safety. The quickest route to pointing out that the appearance of safety is an illusion is to point out the reality that the trusted entity is not to be trusted. The only reason we are told to "never forget" is so the powers that be can use it to justify anything.
Sent my brother off for the Marines the other day. He had been going to warrior training for quite a while and it's what he's wanted to do his whole life so I'm sure he'll get through it. Kinda sucks not being able to see him for 90 days.
On the topic of 9/11 conspiracies I personally believe it was a terrorist attack, but I don't completely disagree that it could have been a false flag operation.
One thing I will say is that the theory that there were explosive charges in the building is imo retarded as hell. The planes had already hit the buildings. We as a nation had already been attacked and there was a reason to go to war. Why would the government (assuming it was a false flag op) go to the trouble to plant/detonate/cover up explosives when imo the planes were all that was needed?
I've thought of the conspiracies and I believe that in order to really believe in them you must also believe in satan.
Think about it. Every conspiracy theory basically boils down to the NWO and ultimately satan's rise to power.
On the topic of 9/11 conspiracies I personally believe it was a terrorist attack, but I don't completely disagree that it could have been a false flag operation.
One thing I will say is that the theory that there were explosive charges in the building is imo retarded as hell. The planes had already hit the buildings. We as a nation had already been attacked and there was a reason to go to war. Why would the government (assuming it was a false flag op) go to the trouble to plant/detonate/cover up explosives when imo the planes were all that was needed?
I've thought of the conspiracies and I believe that in order to really believe in them you must also believe in satan.
Think about it. Every conspiracy theory basically boils down to the NWO and ultimately satan's rise to power.
Just out of curiosity, what is the supposed motive of the conspirators? People have "surrendered liberty," yes, but who benefits from that? That new power must serve some end. The only people who have really benefited are the contractors and PMCs working in Iraq and Afghanistan. Obviously they have some ties to the government officials who would presumably have been involved in the supposed conspiracy (and I have no trouble believing Dick Cheney would do that shit). But I can't see how manufacturing a terrorist attack and attributing it to Al Qaida is the best way to start a war in Iraq. The plutonium bullshit would probably have been enough. As for Afghanistan, I'm sure they could have found a better pretext.
Even if they felt an attack was necessary, there was no need for such a dramatic one. The logistics involved in staging such a massive fraud...from what you said I take it you don't believe the planes that hit the tower were the same planes, in which case the real planes must have been landed at a secret airstrip, the passengers killed, and the bodies and planes disposed of. Or actually I guess it'd be simplest to crash them in the ocean and have the hijackers parachute out and be picked up by boats. Either way you have a substantial crew of operatives who are in on the conspiracy. You also need some actual suicide pilots to crash the fake planes. Plus some people to set up the explosives to actually bring the towers down. And then people to cover it up. That's a fairly large number of people, all of whom are acting for the express purpose of murdering several thousand of their countrymen, many of whom would need fairly sophisticated training. Perhaps you could find a sufficiently ruthless PMC to do that...it's possible. But the suicide pilots? Whoever flew the planes that hit the towers (unless the planes were just holograms using advanced technology the government's been hiding in area 51) died. In the case of a conspiracy, that means that they found at least 2 people (probably more) willing to commit a suicide attack. Again, maybe possible but this is sounding like a huge production, and one that would be nearly impossible to cover up. If the only goal was to start wars in the Middle East, wouldn't it have been easier to fake an assassination attempt on the president or something? That would have been relatively easy. Maybe someone fires an RPG at Air Force One, and then the marines produce the bodies of some terroristy types.
Even if they felt an attack was necessary, there was no need for such a dramatic one. The logistics involved in staging such a massive fraud...from what you said I take it you don't believe the planes that hit the tower were the same planes, in which case the real planes must have been landed at a secret airstrip, the passengers killed, and the bodies and planes disposed of. Or actually I guess it'd be simplest to crash them in the ocean and have the hijackers parachute out and be picked up by boats. Either way you have a substantial crew of operatives who are in on the conspiracy. You also need some actual suicide pilots to crash the fake planes. Plus some people to set up the explosives to actually bring the towers down. And then people to cover it up. That's a fairly large number of people, all of whom are acting for the express purpose of murdering several thousand of their countrymen, many of whom would need fairly sophisticated training. Perhaps you could find a sufficiently ruthless PMC to do that...it's possible. But the suicide pilots? Whoever flew the planes that hit the towers (unless the planes were just holograms using advanced technology the government's been hiding in area 51) died. In the case of a conspiracy, that means that they found at least 2 people (probably more) willing to commit a suicide attack. Again, maybe possible but this is sounding like a huge production, and one that would be nearly impossible to cover up. If the only goal was to start wars in the Middle East, wouldn't it have been easier to fake an assassination attempt on the president or something? That would have been relatively easy. Maybe someone fires an RPG at Air Force One, and then the marines produce the bodies of some terroristy types.
ASD
observing the sabbath
The theories about the charges are retarded. If the terrorists planted charges, why would they bother with the planes? If the government planted the charges, there are two possibilities.
1. They were responsible for the entire thing, planes included. This is retarded for the reasons outlined in my previous post.
2. The planes were a terrorist attack, and then the government planted the charges. This is retarded for a phenomenal number of reasons, both due to the logistics and the reasons outlined by Tonka Time.
The possibility that the government knew the attacks were going to happen but didn't prevent it is more realistic.
1. They were responsible for the entire thing, planes included. This is retarded for the reasons outlined in my previous post.
2. The planes were a terrorist attack, and then the government planted the charges. This is retarded for a phenomenal number of reasons, both due to the logistics and the reasons outlined by Tonka Time.
The possibility that the government knew the attacks were going to happen but didn't prevent it is more realistic.
Vimana
Member
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There are some strange (but possibly insignificant) details, though. A beam of one of the buildings ended up lodged horizontally in the side of another building, and I'm no physicist, but I think it would be hard to achieve that with a falling force. Also, the pilot believed to have flown the plane into the pentagon didn't even hit the ground before hitting the pentagon. That's pretty hard to do, especially when the target is such a short building. I'm no believer in the conspiracy theories, but I'm open to the possibility that it was planned, or as WAIF said, allowed in order to give reason to invade the Middle East.
