New Social Thread

[ASD]

+1

 

[Pessimism]

Just out of curiosity, what is the supposed motive of the conspirators? People have "surrendered liberty," yes, but who benefits from that? That new power must serve some end. The only people who have really benefited are the contractors and PMCs working in Iraq and Afghanistan. Obviously they have some ties to the government officials who would presumably have been involved in the supposed conspiracy (and I have no trouble believing Dick Cheney would do that shit). But I can't see how manufacturing a terrorist attack and attributing it to Al Qaida is the best way to start a war in Iraq. The plutonium bullshit would probably have been enough. As for Afghanistan, I'm sure they could have found a better pretext.

Even if they felt an attack was necessary, there was no need for such a dramatic one. The logistics involved in staging such a massive fraud...from what you said I take it you don't believe the planes that hit the tower were the same planes, in which case the real planes must have been landed at a secret airstrip, the passengers killed, and the bodies and planes disposed of. Or actually I guess it'd be simplest to crash them in the ocean and have the hijackers parachute out and be picked up by boats. Either way you have a substantial crew of operatives who are in on the conspiracy. You also need some actual suicide pilots to crash the fake planes. Plus some people to set up the explosives to actually bring the towers down. And then people to cover it up. That's a fairly large number of people, all of whom are acting for the express purpose of murdering several thousand of their countrymen, many of whom would need fairly sophisticated training. Perhaps you could find a sufficiently ruthless PMC to do that...it's possible. But the suicide pilots? Whoever flew the planes that hit the towers (unless the planes were just holograms using advanced technology the government's been hiding in area 51) died. In the case of a conspiracy, that means that they found at least 2 people (probably more) willing to commit a suicide attack. Again, maybe possible but this is sounding like a huge production, and one that would be nearly impossible to cover up. If the only goal was to start wars in the Middle East, wouldn't it have been easier to fake an assassination attempt on the president or something? That would have been relatively easy. Maybe someone fires an RPG at Air Force One, and then the marines produce the bodies of some terroristy types.

Quiet you Illuminati animal rapist!

 

[waif]

The theories about the charges are retarded. If the terrorists planted charges, why would they bother with the planes? If the government planted the charges, there are two possibilities.

1. They were responsible for the entire thing, planes included. This is retarded for the reasons outlined in my previous post.

2. The planes were a terrorist attack, and then the government planted the charges. This is retarded for a phenomenal number of reasons, both due to the logistics and the reasons outlined by Tonka Time.

The possibility that the government knew the attacks were going to happen but didn't prevent it is more realistic.

 

[Vimana]

There are some strange (but possibly insignificant) details, though. A beam of one of the buildings ended up lodged horizontally in the side of another building, and I'm no physicist, but I think it would be hard to achieve that with a falling force. Also, the pilot believed to have flown the plane into the pentagon didn't even hit the ground before hitting the pentagon. That's pretty hard to do, especially when the target is such a short building. I'm no believer in the conspiracy theories, but I'm open to the possibility that it was planned, or as WAIF said, allowed in order to give reason to invade the Middle East.

 

[Dak]

Sent my brother off for the Marines the other day. He had been going to warrior training for quite a while and it's what he's wanted to do his whole life so I'm sure he'll get through it. Kinda sucks not being able to see him for 90 days.

Sorry to hear that. Unless he gets completely brainwashed and becomes a "mo-tard", he will be severly disillusioned when he finds out all that propaganda the recruiters sell is bullshit.

On the topic of 9/11 conspiracies I personally believe it was a terrorist attack, but I don't completely disagree that it could have been a false flag operation.

??

One thing I will say is that the theory that there were explosive charges in the building is imo retarded as hell. The planes had already hit the buildings. We as a nation had already been attacked and there was a reason to go to war. Why would the government (assuming it was a false flag op) go to the trouble to plant/detonate/cover up explosives when imo the planes were all that was needed?

I don't know of anyone who thinks that explosives were placed in the building after the planes hit. That would be retarded.

If you google the amount of insider trading/deals that took place within the year leading up to the event, that caused huge windfalls for various people who could easily be "in the know", including Mr Silverstein himself.

Then we could go into how the damage done on impact to the buildings, and the size of the planes that hit the WTC themselves, do not match up to the size of the planes that supposedly were hijacked and hit the buildings.

The supposed "myth debunker" websites do not offer any evidence other than "official reports", to dispute things like

1. No plane hit the Pentagon
2. No explosive substances were found in the debris
3. Air defenses were taken offline/stood down (A personal source, a retired Marine MGySgt, that worked for Raytheon in Air Surveillance on the Eastern Seaboard at the time told me this happened for a fact.)

etc.

I've thought of the conspiracies and I believe that in order to really believe in them you must also believe in satan.
Think about it. Every conspiracy theory basically boils down to the NWO and ultimately satan's rise to power.

I don't see why a group of people working together behind closed doors to increase their wealth and control requires a belief in Satan.

Just out of curiosity, what is the supposed motive of the conspirators? People have "surrendered liberty," yes, but who benefits from that? That new power must serve some end. The only people who have really benefited are the contractors and PMCs working in Iraq and Afghanistan. Obviously they have some ties to the government officials who would presumably have been involved in the supposed conspiracy (and I have no trouble believing Dick Cheney would do that shit). But I can't see how manufacturing a terrorist attack and attributing it to Al Qaida is the best way to start a war in Iraq. The plutonium bullshit would probably have been enough. As for Afghanistan, I'm sure they could have found a better pretext.

Even if they felt an attack was necessary, there was no need for such a dramatic one. The logistics involved in staging such a massive fraud...from what you said I take it you don't believe the planes that hit the tower were the same planes, in which case the real planes must have been landed at a secret airstrip, the passengers killed, and the bodies and planes disposed of. Or actually I guess it'd be simplest to crash them in the ocean and have the hijackers parachute out and be picked up by boats. Either way you have a substantial crew of operatives who are in on the conspiracy. You also need some actual suicide pilots to crash the fake planes. Plus some people to set up the explosives to actually bring the towers down. And then people to cover it up. That's a fairly large number of people, all of whom are acting for the express purpose of murdering several thousand of their countrymen, many of whom would need fairly sophisticated training. Perhaps you could find a sufficiently ruthless PMC to do that...it's possible. But the suicide pilots? Whoever flew the planes that hit the towers (unless the planes were just holograms using advanced technology the government's been hiding in area 51) died. In the case of a conspiracy, that means that they found at least 2 people (probably more) willing to commit a suicide attack. Again, maybe possible but this is sounding like a huge production, and one that would be nearly impossible to cover up. If the only goal was to start wars in the Middle East, wouldn't it have been easier to fake an assassination attempt on the president or something? That would have been relatively easy. Maybe someone fires an RPG at Air Force One, and then the marines produce the bodies of some terroristy types.

This breakdown is shortsighted for two reasons:

1. A terrorist attack involving a major landmark, the most advanced form of (public/commercial) travel, killing thousands, and fully televised would be the absolute best way to accomplish any policy changes.
An assassination attempt by the president by "terrorists" would merely lead to an increase in Presidential protection. There is no "public threat".
The entire scenario that happened was co-authored by Dick Cheney "PNAC" (Project for a New American Century), and his buddies at Halliburton got the no-bid contract in Iraq/Afghanistan build/rebuild operations.
We got the DHS/TSA, Patriot Act, a license to kill in whatever country supposedly aided/housed "terrorists", a mushrooming budget for the military industrial complex at large, domestic clandestine operations that in essence are shredding the Bill of Rights, etc.

2. Bush's father was not only the president only 8 years prior, but also a former director of the CIA. I'm sure he had no ties at all
Regardless of how many people knew what, it is not hard to imagine that everyone has a price, and if they don't, there's always a lead payment. Xe operatives, or other black ops mercenaries/spec ops, follow orders. It's all just killing, regardless of the nationality of the target.
While in the Marines we were asked if we would shoot US citizens if ordered to. Most said yes. (Of course Texans mostly excluded those of their own state). Why would spooks/mercenaries be any more civil?

 

[waif]

Alright, fair enough. But there are still some problems there.
1. Who flew the planes into the buildings? Mercenaries don't kill themselves.
2. Why plant explosives in the building? The planes make enough of a spectacle, even if the buildings don't collapse.

None of it makes sense. Somebody (Chomsky, I think) said that the conspiracy theorists were basically just assuming what they wanted to believe, then discounting all the evidence that didn't fit. This sounds like that to me.

 

[Vimana]

Well, if you're going to launch an attack on a country, it matters just how much damage you do. It's one thing to damage a building, because that can be repaired, but it's another thing to knock buildings down to the ground and fill a city center with dust.

 

[Dak]

Alright, fair enough. But there are still some problems there.
1. Who flew the planes into the buildings? Mercenaries don't kill themselves.

Who says they weren't GPS controlled? Especially if they weren't the same planes. Of course there's no way to prove it, but it is a possibility.

2. Why plant explosives in the building? The planes make enough of a spectacle, even if the buildings don't collapse.

Couple of holes? Meh. Bringing down the buildings? Epic spectacle.

None of it makes sense.

What doesn't make sense? As I said before, the "cavemen preforming amazing flying maneuvers in jumbo jets while evading the entire US C4(Command, Control, Communications, Computers) capabilities" scenario is the only completely unbelievable one.

Somebody (Chomsky, I think) said that the conspiracy theorists were basically just assuming what they wanted to believe, then discounting all the evidence that didn't fit.

That's funny, because I say the exact same for the believers of official explanations.

 

[waif]

Look, the two options here are:

1. Terrorists launched a terror attack on America because they hate America.

or

2. The US government staged a massive false flag attack on its own citizens, and then staged a nearly flawless cover-up in order to increase its control over the populace and engage in imperialist wars.

One of those seems slightly more reasonable. Can you identify which one?

As far as the training to hijack and pilot the planes...it doesn't take that much. A little kung-fu and a little flight school. We trained these guys back in the 80s, just because many of them live in caves doesn't make them cavemen. Yes, the planes didn't get shot down...because hijacking planes wasn't always terrorism. Then they crash into the buildings, which collapse. I don't understand what's so unfathomable about this.

 

[Tonka Time]

Sorry to hear that. Unless he gets completely brainwashed and becomes a "mo-tard", he will be severly disillusioned when he finds out all that propaganda the recruiters sell is bullshit.

Guess we'll have an idea of the outcome when I see him after he graduates.

As for the explosives bringing the towers down theory: I didn't mean explosives were put in after the planes hit. Some people believe that there were charges placed in the buildings before the planes hit. Either way it's a retarded theory and I don't think anyone here believes it.

Doing it for wealth and power? ok. What will they use all that wealth and power for? If they're using it for control why do they want/need that control?

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I love that Dakryn and other conspiracy theorists think the whole of America consists of dumb drooling primates yet assumes the evil statist government did something huge and elaborate that included killing tons of our own people and that was the only thing that could convince such easily convinced "sheeple" that we needed to go destroy the Middle East or whatever.

 

[Xorv]

"The possibility that the government knew the attacks were going to happen but didn't prevent it is more realistic."

This in my opinion would be the only plausible conspiracy or that our government was careless in preventing the attack or even couldn't believe such a massive event could even happen and did nothing.

To believe any of the other "conspiracies" is not only silly, but ignorant. Pre 9/11, and even post 9/11, it is still very much possible to commit a terrorist attack of any level. Ex; the countless shootings that have happened in the 10 years since 9/11 like the one at Fort Hood. Another example; the christmas day bomber who if it wasn't for his inexperience with explosives was literally seconds from killing who knows how many people on that passenger plane.

it's hard enough for our government (PRE AND POST 9/11) to keep drugs out of this country, don't you think they have just as much trouble keeping terrorists out? Who, by the way, don't carry around flags saying; "i'm a terrorist" and don't enter this country with their stockpile of weapons with them when everything they need is here, ie; guns, ammunition, vehicles, etc, etc.

 

[waif]

What I would put my money is that the CIA suspected or even knew that something was going to happen, but didn't know what, when, or where. They passed shit up the ladder, but the White House didn't give a shit.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I love that Dakryn and other conspiracy theorists think the whole of America consists of dumb drooling primates yet assumes the evil statist government did something huge and elaborate that included killing tons of our own people and that was the only thing that could convince such easily convinced "sheeple" that we needed to go destroy the Middle East or whatever.

Uh, "dumb drooling primates" is actually a pretty good description for most of us. People are not created equal, some are much better than others at business and management. Between all the think tanks, inner circles and various other congregations of power-hungry assholes across planet Earth, there's plenty of room for "evil schemes" to pop up once in a while.

Not trying to make a claim one way or the other about 9/11, just that people tend to be kinda ignorant and are easily manipulated by the "establishment".

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

Compare 9/11 to Pearl Harbor and it makes more sense, at least for me. Churchill wanted us in WWII and we needed an excuse to drop the bomb, so we let the Japs bomb us, even though there was plenty of reliable intelligence warning of imminent attack.
Fast forward 60 years, and Iraq is threatening to abandon the dollar as the reserve currency for oil (a virtual terrorist attack on our economy). Iran is attempting to develop nuclear weapons. We need to take out Saddam and surround Iran (which Iraq and Afghanistan happen to do). Suddenly, the silver bullet of Osama bin Laden's and Khalid Shiek Muhammed's terror plot of an attack on America appear, which the CIA has knowledge of at least 1 year in advance. Again, America takes advantage. And yes, the Bush's and the Saudis were probably there in the background dropping breadcrumbs for Al Qaeda to follow on the path to victory. All this bullshit about remote controlled planes and controlled demolition is just that, but there is no way that certain powerful people in the U.S. were not involved.

 

[skeptik]

The arrogance with which some people hold views for which there is no substantiated proof is baffling.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

So what is so outrageous about the idea that the 9/11 attacks were allowed to happen despite foreknowledge? Also, although there is no concrete evidence of funding and assistance from the west, why is that such a stretch?

 

[Dak]

I don't have time at the moment to give a full rebuttal but I can provide two things:

1. @Dodens: Your statement goes both ways sir.

2. A video highlighting the ridiculous official story over the last ten years. There are no conspiracies put forth in this video.

 

[Saparmurat_Niyazov]

Great video.

 

[Tonka Time]

The arrogance with which some people hold views for which there is no substantiated proof is baffling.

Could 9/11 have just been a terrorist attack? Yes.
Could 9/11 have been something more? Yes.

So to hold either view as 100% fact is, in my opinion, wrong.