MasterOLightning
Optimator
I'll try and find sources, but I've heard lots of people say that the talent level is way down this year. There aren't as many surefire prospects this year. Not particularly strong at QB or RB.
NFL 2009
- Thread starter Dak
- Start date
rms
Active Member
MasterOLightning
Optimator
Trust me, Kyle Orton isn't very good. He can only lead a dink and dunk offense. The team went 9-7 somehow, mostly because Matt Forte was a such a solid RB.
The Bears also signed Orlando Pace for LT. Good move, even if he's not what he used to be.
The Bears also signed Orlando Pace for LT. Good move, even if he's not what he used to be.
rms
Active Member
I don't think Cutler will do any better, I agree with the rest the WR weapons are just not there
MasterOLightning
Optimator
seedofvengeance
Boosh!
They have to be the favorites in the north right now. Wouldn't be surprised to see them pursue Holt after making this commitment to Cutler.
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
If the Packers can pull off the 3-4 then they're much better off than the Bears will be. Because, lets me honest, we've got more offensive talent than they do.
Take this into consideration.
Packers had the best WR corps last year, but only a decent o-line
Broncos had the best pass blocking o-line last year, and a solid WR corps
Aaron Rodgers threw 536 times.
Jay Cutler threw 616 times.
Rodgers completed 341 passes.
Cutler completed 384 passes.
Rodgers edges Cutler out on passing percentage barely with a 63.6% compared to a 62.3%.
They had basically the same YPA. 7.5 for Rodgers, 7.3 for Cutler.
Rodgers had more TDs (28), and less interceptions (13) than Cutler who had 25 TDs and 18 INTs.
Now Rodgers put up those stats while being sacked more than TWICE the amount of times as Cutler did. 38 times. Cutler was only sacked 11 times.
Rodgers had a passer rating of 93.8 while Cutler had a rating of 86.
This was on Rodgers first season as a starter. This is Cutler's third, and for the record his overall QB rating has gone down each year since 2006.
Considering that Cutler will now be playing with subpar recievers and with a lesser o-line than Denver had, he's not going to be doing so hot.
And the argument can't be made that the Bears have a better RB because Ryan Grant and Matt Forte had incredibly similar stats (outside of TDs.)
Grant with 312 carries got 1203 yards and 4 TDs, while Forte had 316 rushes for 1238 yards and 8 TDs, and if you put into considering the receiving TDs then yes Forte has an additional 4 TDs to his credit, but you have to consider - Forte was THE only weapon the Bears had all season. He accounted for I believe 1/3 of the Bears total offense.
The Packers had 5 WRs that were all very good in addition to Grant, so they really didn't have to have him run it. The Bears HAD to use Forte.
Either way, don't overrate the Bears. They've got a long way to go. And to be fair, so do the Packers.
I'm giving the NFC North to the Vikings at the moment. They've got the most complete team in the NFCN and if they can get even say Percy Harvin or Hakeem Nicks, or perhaps trade up to get Josh Freeman so they can fix their QB situation then they are a SCARY team. Packers have to prove their 3-4 can work well before I give them a shot at even the playoffs, but the Bears have a ton of areas to work on as well so really don't overstate them.
Take this into consideration.
Packers had the best WR corps last year, but only a decent o-line
Broncos had the best pass blocking o-line last year, and a solid WR corps
Aaron Rodgers threw 536 times.
Jay Cutler threw 616 times.
Rodgers completed 341 passes.
Cutler completed 384 passes.
Rodgers edges Cutler out on passing percentage barely with a 63.6% compared to a 62.3%.
They had basically the same YPA. 7.5 for Rodgers, 7.3 for Cutler.
Rodgers had more TDs (28), and less interceptions (13) than Cutler who had 25 TDs and 18 INTs.
Now Rodgers put up those stats while being sacked more than TWICE the amount of times as Cutler did. 38 times. Cutler was only sacked 11 times.
Rodgers had a passer rating of 93.8 while Cutler had a rating of 86.
This was on Rodgers first season as a starter. This is Cutler's third, and for the record his overall QB rating has gone down each year since 2006.
Considering that Cutler will now be playing with subpar recievers and with a lesser o-line than Denver had, he's not going to be doing so hot.
And the argument can't be made that the Bears have a better RB because Ryan Grant and Matt Forte had incredibly similar stats (outside of TDs.)
Grant with 312 carries got 1203 yards and 4 TDs, while Forte had 316 rushes for 1238 yards and 8 TDs, and if you put into considering the receiving TDs then yes Forte has an additional 4 TDs to his credit, but you have to consider - Forte was THE only weapon the Bears had all season. He accounted for I believe 1/3 of the Bears total offense.
The Packers had 5 WRs that were all very good in addition to Grant, so they really didn't have to have him run it. The Bears HAD to use Forte.
Either way, don't overrate the Bears. They've got a long way to go. And to be fair, so do the Packers.
I'm giving the NFC North to the Vikings at the moment. They've got the most complete team in the NFCN and if they can get even say Percy Harvin or Hakeem Nicks, or perhaps trade up to get Josh Freeman so they can fix their QB situation then they are a SCARY team. Packers have to prove their 3-4 can work well before I give them a shot at even the playoffs, but the Bears have a ton of areas to work on as well so really don't overstate them.
seedofvengeance
Boosh!
You put too much stock in to rookies, Mort. If the Vikes get any of those guys, 99 times out of a 100 they're not going to be effective as a rookie. They still are going to be relying on Sage Rosenfels to win ballgames, and let's just go ahead and assume that that's not a great bet to happen.
Let's not forget that Jay Cutler put up all his numbers without a semblance of a running game. What was it Denver was down to last year? It's 6th running back?
Also, the Packers are going to struggle with the 3-4 in their first year. They don't really have the personnel for it. Aaron Rodgers did play well, but even in a depleted state, the Bears defense is miles ahead of the Packers'.
Let's not forget that Jay Cutler put up all his numbers without a semblance of a running game. What was it Denver was down to last year? It's 6th running back?
Also, the Packers are going to struggle with the 3-4 in their first year. They don't really have the personnel for it. Aaron Rodgers did play well, but even in a depleted state, the Bears defense is miles ahead of the Packers'.
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
Broncos were ranked 12th in rushing in 2008 with 15 rushing TDs and 1870 yards by their backs.
Packers were ranked 17th in rushing in 2008 with 11 TDs and 1805 yards.
Both teams were pretty well equal as far as rushing goes.
And yeah, I know I put too much into rookies sometimes, but when Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco can do good and be a part of shitty teams basically complete turnaround I think it is a bit realistic for a QB to be the key for the Vikings, even a rookie, considering all you have to do is toss it to Berrian or hand off to AD.
Packers were ranked 17th in rushing in 2008 with 11 TDs and 1805 yards.
Both teams were pretty well equal as far as rushing goes.
And yeah, I know I put too much into rookies sometimes, but when Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco can do good and be a part of shitty teams basically complete turnaround I think it is a bit realistic for a QB to be the key for the Vikings, even a rookie, considering all you have to do is toss it to Berrian or hand off to AD.
seedofvengeance
Boosh!
Stats may have been similar, but teams aren't gearing up to stop Peyton Hillis any time soon. Ryan Grant makes teams at least respect the run.
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
Fair enough.
I'm actually really surprised that fuckin' Grant had 1200 yards haha. He was such a low impact player for the Packers last year, weird as shit really that he got that much.
I'm actually really surprised that fuckin' Grant had 1200 yards haha. He was such a low impact player for the Packers last year, weird as shit really that he got that much.
Matt
Active Member
He was hurt the first half of the year with a hamstring injury. He was back to normal in the 2nd half and did well despite having a shit offensive line.
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
Oh yeah I forgot about that injury.
I'd like to see him play a full seasons worth of games uninjured.
I'd like to see him play a full seasons worth of games uninjured.
MasterOLightning
Optimator
Grant put up numbers against defenses that were geared up for the pass usually. Forte did his damage against teams that knew he was the only real threat. I think he might really shine now that teams can't cram 8 in the box. Let's not discount that both got to face Detroit twice. Of course, that might get canceled out by Minnesota's strong run D.
Still, I can't see how the Bears regress from their record last year. It is a misconception that they still have a great D. By any measure they were very flawed, notably on the pass rush. But they can draft heavily on defense, and hope that Cutler makes the WRs better. They're mostly solid at OL and RB.
Still, I can't see how the Bears regress from their record last year. It is a misconception that they still have a great D. By any measure they were very flawed, notably on the pass rush. But they can draft heavily on defense, and hope that Cutler makes the WRs better. They're mostly solid at OL and RB.
King Richard
Hello there
I agree at the QB position this draft isn't loaded, but as for the other positions, that's just a bunch of bullshit "draft experts" like douche Mel Kiper and Todd McGay rant on and on about. This draft is fucking loaded with running backs man, trust me. Ever heard of Rashad Jennings? Andre Brown? Glenn Coffee is a great 4th round prospect as long as he bulks up a bit. Kory Sheets is a burner and played really well for Purdue last year.
There are plenty of guys out there, those guys just don't like talking about the non-1st round picks is all. Besides, most of the great running backs in NFL right now were all 2nd-4th round picks anyways.
rms
Active Member
Im incredibly surprised he got 1k yards, he was a fucking joke all year as I had him on my fantasy team. Especially this awesome week;
09/14 @ DET W 48-25 1 1 15 20 1.3 5 0
King Richard
Hello there
That's why you NEVER, EVER EVER EVER ERVERVERVER, draft a guy coming off of a career year man. You just DON'T DO it. Tom Brady had a career year in 2007, and was out in the first fucking game of the year. Same for Randy Moss, but that was because Brady was out. Shaun Alexander? Same. LT? Well he was pretty consistent up until a year ago. That's just the the #1 rule in fantasy man. Unless the guy's name is Peyton Manning (this isn't because I'm a Colts homer, he's just that good year in and out), you don't draft him in the first round based on his previous season.
FYP.
On the fantasy thing, for the most part that's true. Randy Moss still had a solid year though even without Brady, just not an amazing year.
King Richard
Hello there
Yeah, and I'm sure everyone and their mother is going to draft Larry Fitzgerald in the first round too. I'll pass.
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