nihilism and hate in metal

[no country for old wainds]

I'm not opposing destruction itself, I'm opposing destruction of the whole.

 

[icilian fenner]

true

but i still feel that to destory humans in a violent fashion will fuel only the plight of the violent and the brutal. those fueled with righteous anger always destory and do ill, for all their passion. such slaughter is ill, and violates the peace that best becomes a love of the earth......
we must be wise....

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Eugenics would be far more efficient. There's no point having loads of stupid people left to just fuck everything up again.

That's only if you believe everyone isn't equal.

I'd rather not get into that discussion.

Edit: Opeth rule!

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

General Music Discussion.

 

[no country for old wainds]

Some people are better at snooker than others. Some people can grasp mathematical concepts more easily than others. And some people are destroying the planet more than others. I don't think there's a counter-argument for this.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

General Music Discussion.

 

[polarity]

General Music Discussion.

You don't have to read the thread if you don't like where the discussion is heading.

Shut the fuck up.

 

[icilian fenner]

Some people are better at snooker than others. Some people can grasp mathematical concepts more easily than others. And some people are destroying the planet more than others. I don't think there's a counter-argument for this

the equality ideology is based on the notion that each human is equally capable in heart, not in mental capacity......

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

You don't have to read the thread if you don't like where the discussion is heading.

Shut the fuck up.

k

 

[crimsonfloyd]

But again, most humans are incapable of beauty at this moment because they're enslaved by this society.

The fact is Hugh, that people now rely on certain comforts. You can't succeed in teaching them new values like you suggested. It's like converting a Christian to Atheism, it rarely happens. Some people would actually rather die than give up those comforts - even for such a blatantly more important cause.

I think this is very true. Today's modern western scocieties are creating a bunch of very weak minded people. I mean if you watch TV and look closly, look at how many messages you are told. This is evil, this is good. Then look at the religion that runs most of Western scocitey, Christianity. This religion teaches mindless following and to not question, aka it teaches weakness. Unfortunatly a bunch of weak people are in control of most of the nations, becuase the majority of mankind has become weak, so with demecracy, aka let the idoits have as much say as those who actually think for themselves, dumb fucks like George Bush come into power. These people, who are too simple minded to realize that something as redicoulous as the bible is a story, those who are too stupid to realize that the way they think about most everything is controled by the media and other sources, those who can't see were inside a disgusting machine churning out weakness don't deserve to live. Becuase in the end they are gonna kill of not only man kind, but most of what lives in this world. Basically it is because of these people and their weak simple minded mentality that the worlds resources are being used up. Becuase of them many other living beings are being killed off. The world is in a state of distress, and its because of the way most people in power think. Thats why the best thing that could happen would be for modern scocity to completly crumble, then evryone would have to fend for themselves, or fend for their family, like all animals do. It would invlove returning to the nature of surival of the fittest, and naturally the stupid, weak and shallow would die off qiuck. Humans would strengthen as those who did not allow the old scocities weakness to overtake them would surive. Unfortuanatly I probably will never live to see this happen, I realize its a very big, idealistic dream. Sadly the bible seemed to be right, the weak are inheriting the earth...

 

[Varulv]

there is no such thing as "national socialism" and "communism"

That made me laugh.

 

[speed]

I think most intelligent people have at least pondered ways to correct the injustices of society.

Crimson FLoyd you have passed the threshold into the true essence of nihilism- the destruction of everything; the abyss. Obviously then, nihilism runs into a brick wall, as the destruction of everything is not a viable solution, especially if this reorganizing is done by human society- and not some freak accident of nature. Even this thought of a natural catatrosphe sounds a bit messianic to me; a bit like communism, and christianity- that is the existing world is evil, and a savior will come ( be it a religious savior, or one of supposed secular equality).

Maybe the world and society is not evil? Maybe society is at least in the first world, at its full social potential for humans? There will always be injustice; it is part of human nature- live with it. SO some people may be repressed or have fewer opportunities etc, its better than killing them in the name of some impossible utopia. Destruction and killing solve no problem; they only take away everymans chance for heaven and hell, for love, happiness, forl life- and thats all we got.

Hm sorry sounding preachy, like I said i used to think along the same lines, so i understand where everyone is coming from, but i also understand just how horrific these thoughts would be if put into practice.

I have noticed that every year, we do seem to be losing more rights, and more and more people are acting like the herd. I blame Reagan, for not only trumpeting some petty moralism,but eliminating the anti trust laws. FUck everything from what we eat to what we watch etc. is owned by one of like 25 multinational conglomerates.

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

That made me laugh.

it must be your purpose in life that you didn't quote everything that i said just so i'd look like an idiot, well, thats all good, but what do u know about NS or communism? they are both an extreme version of capitalism in disguise, and what these pretentious intellects say don't count, because in actualy fact none of them could be put into practice

capitalism in general is the exploitation of humanity's greed and vulnerability, after all, human beings are acquisitive by nature, so there's never enough to go around, every man for himself

NS/fascism and communism is an exploitation WITH an order and a firm establishment, they are just as corrupt as anybody else

don't kid yourself

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

but what do u know about NS or communism?

I'm guessing more than you, since apparently they don't even exist as ideas.

 

[Varulv]

what do u know about NS or communism? they are both an extreme version of capitalism in disguise, and what these pretentious intellects say don't count, because in actualy fact none of them could be put into practice

I know a lot about NS and communism actually. No, they aren't capitalism in disguise. I guess you've never read any books on the two political systems. National Socialism has existed... it's called Nazi Germany. Communism has been attempted, but never been practiced in its pure form.... Socialism however, is a more toned down version of communism with less control and is active in many countries today. So uh yeah, they both exist.

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

I know a lot about NS and communism actually. No, they aren't capitalism in disguise. I guess you've never read any books on the two political systems. National Socialism has existed... it's called Nazi Germany. Communism has been attempted, but never been practiced in its pure form.... Socialism however, is a more toned down version of communism with less control and is active in many countries today. So uh yeah, they both exist.

NS has existed, but not for long tho, and with the amount of political infighting within the nazi hierarchy they wouldn't have lasted another few years anyway. personally i see NS social structure like i see a sweatshop in southeast asia, the boss makes the dough at the expense of the workers, much like the nazis

communism is just utter crap, anyone who thinks it'll work should be shot

thus....the reason that i say both systems don't exist because it will never overcome the need for acquisition of every human being, as i said before, history hasn't proven anything yet, if it has, we wouldn't even be having this conversation right now

 

[Varulv]

The Third Reich could have existed for a long time... had they not gone to war. NS is nothing like a "sweatshop"; Before WWII, the German citizens [and anyone who wasn't openly against Hitler] had a great quality of life. Hitler (and Mussolini in Italy) made sure of this. The attempt at Communism is another story though... you and I both agree it's bullshit.

It's not correct to say Communism doesn't exist... because it does [mainly as a ideology and as Socialism to an extent]. It'd be more proper to say it doesn't work.

These days, National Socialism would work in small countries like Germany (duh), Norway, and Sweden. Possibly even a large one like Russia. However, it would fail in a country like the US or Canada because of all the different races that have immigrated there over the years.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

I think most intelligent people have at least pondered ways to correct the injustices of society.

Crimson FLoyd you have passed the threshold into the true essence of nihilism- the destruction of everything; the abyss. Obviously then, nihilism runs into a brick wall, as the destruction of everything is not a viable solution, especially if this reorganizing is done by human society- and not some freak accident of nature. Even this thought of a natural catatrosphe sounds a bit messianic to me; a bit like communism, and christianity- that is the existing world is evil, and a savior will come ( be it a religious savior, or one of supposed secular equality).

Well first off I admited that what I want is extreemly ideal, and will probably never happen (well it probably will, but not during my lifetime), however you seem to be mistaken on a few things. This would not lead to the destruction of everything, just of modern scoieties. People would of course form into groups. The strong ones, most likely those who are more in touch with their animal nature, as thats what it would take to live in a scoiety in which we were no longer "protected" by todays "luxuries", would survive. The weak people, those who cry if they have to sleep outside for one night, those who are fearful of animals, those who won't go into the woods cuz they're afraid they'll get lost or step into some poison oak ect would die, because in essance it would be everyone for their self, or at best, for their family. Humans would once again be immerced in our animal nature. Those who accepted it (ie would kill to feed their own ect) would be a lot better then those who couldn't escape the secualr or christain mind-sets. Yes the current world is, in my eyes "evil" (I hate that word). We live in a culture that teaches you to 1)be weak and 2)deny your animal nature (the two go hand in hand). I don't believe in a savoir or any of that BS. I think its my resposiblitity to protect nature however possible (without screwing up natural evelution on any level beyond humans), allow weak induviduals to continue to hurt themsleves (never help them), and to try and find others who are smart enough to understand our nature and to have them do the same, to what ever degree they see resposible. The only person I should expect to be a savior is myself.

Maybe the world and society is not evil? Maybe society is at least in the first world, at its full social potential for humans? There will always be injustice; it is part of human nature- live with it. SO some people may be repressed or have fewer opportunities etc, its better than killing them in the name of some impossible utopia. Destruction and killing solve no problem; they only take away everymans chance for heaven and hell, for love, happiness, forl life- and thats all we got

I never bitched about injustices. And I don't believe in killing those who are repressed. I would just like to see the weak kill themselves off instead of being given a helping hand. Obviously your not looking at the bigger picture. Who cares about one person's happiness, espically some dumb person who believes a guy stuffed two of every animal into an arch. This is a time in history in which we must look beyond the induviduals happeiness to save the world. If humans dont change, how do you think the world will look in 50 years? 100? 200? Eventually humans are gonna reach a point where we have used up so many of our resources (by which point most of nature will probably be demolished) that the situation I speak will occur to one degree or another, so I just think it should happen sooner then later, so we can save as much of nature as we can. BTW you don't actually believe in a hevean and hell do you?

Hm sorry sounding preachy, like I said i used to think along the same lines, so i understand where everyone is coming from, but i also understand just how horrific these thoughts would be if put into practice.)

They are only horrific as long as you are trapped in the secular/christian views of the modern world.

 

[speed]

Well I still think you missed my point- the blood of just one person harmed ( and in this case many more) in the furtherance of your just primitive society is on your hands and is inherently wrong, and will form the poor structure and foundation of your supposedly just society. Why do we want to return to the past anyhow? From history we have excellent examples of a few strong people enslaving the weak- this trend is present for the whole of human history up to the 19th century- and hell is stilll present in many countries. Your ideas are interesting but a little naive to human history and human nature. Have you read lord of the flies, or hell any of COnrad's works?

Oh when the whole Y2k thing hit, i thought sort of along the same lines as you- i still think it would have been great if everything modern went off for a day or two, just to make us aware of how trapped we are by modern conveniences.

Oh I meant the heaven and hell comment to be within the context of everyday life- not the afterlife.

 

[crimsonfloyd]

Well I still think you missed my point- the blood of just one person harmed ( and in this case many more) in the furtherance of your just primitive society is on your hands and is inherently wrong, and will form the poor structure and foundation of your supposedly just society. Why do we want to return to the past anyhow? From history we have excellent examples of a few strong people enslaving the weak- this trend is present for the whole of human history up to the 19th century- and hell is stilll present in many countries. Your ideas are interesting but a little naive to human history and human nature. Have you read lord of the flies, or hell any of COnrad's works?

Dude I'm a nihilist, I don't believe in wrongs and rights, beyond those each person chooses for their selves (or if the typical person, allow others to choose for you). I've read Lord of the Flies a long time ago, but from what I remeber something very natural and beautiful that happened. The strong survied and the weakest kids were killed. That's the type of thing I would like to see more of.

Oh I meant the heaven and hell comment to be within the context of everyday life- not the afterlife.

Good