Nsbm

[nergal_S]

What is your opnion on National Socialist Black Metal? Dose Poltics belong in Metal? Dose it have any place in Black metal? Some NSBM bands are Absured, Thors Hammer, Burzum est..

In my opnion it very much turns me of from a band when they have NS thems in music. Espicaly in black metal, it hurts the scene alot also becuase it closes it, and makes out side people think the whole scene is full of Nazis. What is your opnion?

 

[The Deathrace King]

I agree.

They should sing about cakes.

And pies.

I lik them, there nice.

NS themes were the natural progression from the heathen themes and national pride of old.

 

[nergal_S]

Death Race.. Its diffrent when Bathory sings about having Pride of his heritage and viking religions, and when Varg talked about being the master race when that fucking idiot is polish any way and Hitler invaded Poland in 3 days.

 

[The Deathrace King]

In other words, its at odds with your personal morality.

Its not at odds with mine.

 

[The Wanderer]

Boring. how many times is this gonna be brought up and argued ver.

 

[_A_SCARLET_SUNSET_]

There is definatley no place for NS ideology in Black Metal. People seem to forget that the ns movement was supported by the catholic church and hitler only abused the ancient viking beliefs to give reasons for his actions. They also seem to forget that national socialism is nothing else than blindly following one leader, there is no place for individualism. Also... Hitler himself said that by wiping out all the jews, he only continues the work of the catholich church and made statemens like "Im namen des Hern erwehre ich mich des jud" (In the name of the father/lord, i resist myself of the jew).

 

[~UlvedaL~]

First of all, Hitler did not abuse the viking belief.. Nazis only used symbols from that era..

And is following one leader uncorrect, if it is the right one?

I agree in differences in the NS, and raceconflicts does not belong here.. But love to ones people and country is not that kind of things! For instance Taake are very NS, but not political at all...

 

[Ormir]

Originally posted by _A_SCARLET_SUNSET_
There is definatley no place for NS ideology in Black Metal. People seem to forget that the ns movement was supported by the catholic church and hitler only abused the ancient viking beliefs to give reasons for his actions. They also seem to forget that national socialism is nothing else than blindly following one leader, there is no place for individualism. Also... Hitler himself said that by wiping out all the jews, he only continues the work of the catholich church and made statemens like "Im namen des Hern erwehre ich mich des jud" (In the name of the father/lord, i resist myself of the jew).

That's not correct, Hitler was very anti-christian. He only used Christian themes in his speeches to manipulate the masses.

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."

"Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind."

"Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold <its demise>."

 

[_A_SCARLET_SUNSET_]

Originally posted by ~UlvedaL~
First of all, Hitler did not abuse the viking belief.. Nazis only used symbols from that era..

And is following one leader uncorrect, if it is the right one?

I agree in differences in the NS, and raceconflicts does not belong here.. But love to ones people and country is not that kind of things! For instance Taake are very NS, but not political at all...

but of course he abused ancient viking beliefs/behaviour patterns. For example he justified his takeover with the "thing" (sp?) of the vikings, where, in times of trouble, a leader of a tribe was elected by the members of the trie. In fact, this thing only came together in the times of the migration, for the purpose of chosing a leader which was strong and wise enough to show a way.

Following a leader is always wrong, because you lose your individuality, you become some sort of enslaved.

 

[_A_SCARLET_SUNSET_]

Originally posted by Ormir
That's not correct, Hitler was very anti-christian. He only used Christian themes in his speeches to manipulate the masses.

of course he used christian themes for purposes of mass hypnosis, but the second quote i mentioned was from "Mein Kampf"

 

[Wandrail]

I think all of it is very funny, I have known a number of people who ended up being involved/are involved with these movements, and its just hilarious. Its all a bunch of rebellious kids looking for a place to belong where they feel empowered. They can't gain this feeling in society or through their own self-realization, so they find it in irrational hatred. Of course alot of these black metallers are so obsessed with being more 'evil' and 'shocking' and nihilistic than the others, so going into this territory is expected. Chuck Schuldiner said it best: "To be extreme, so it seems, is a mental crutch, to cover up for those who are completely out of touch." Its all just missing the fucking point.

 

[Board]

I can only quote Kenny Hickey of Type O Negative: "Politics have no place in any band! You go on tour for two years, are cut-off from the world and when you come home you have tatoos and clamydia" - At least that's what he said as far as I recall.
The reason I got interested in Northern mythology was because I listened to black metal. Before that I had never had an interest in it. If I hadn't kind of "skipped" it (and my parents were crazy over it) it might had evolved further. I was also anti-christian and shit, so it would have been kind of a "natural" progression to hate jews as well!
I think I've commented on this in the censorship thread and as I said there, I don't think nazi shit belong in the music, as there's a lot of people who aren't really strong enough and they'll jump on the wagon because some people say it's cool. I was one of them as you can see, but I now think I have a mind of my own.
Maybe it's a little like fashion. Tatooes for instance are really popular now, but a big bunch of those people who have tribal shit down their arms wouldn't have it if it hadn't been fashionable and shit and if someone hadn't said it was cool!

 

[nergal_S]

I dont see how Nihlism and NS come together any way? Nihlism clames that people in genreal are no good, while NS wants to say one group of people has more potential to be good? I think the stupdist thing is to judge people for there back ground, because that is somthing they cant control were they were born or what skin color you are, (Unlease you Mikale Jackson ;-)

 

[Wandrail]

Well, the thing is, to alot of these people, and I have known some, they are fixated on the aspect of hatred and eradication of others, and thoughts towards the potential of themselves are secondary. The ideology is so stupid anyway, because if they as germanic descendents, or now its white people in general, are so much higher than others, why is it so hard for us to escape these imagined jewish conspiracies and forms of oppression? Its giving people a boogie man to focus their energy on and live off the hate that's generated, and its sad if that's all you have to motivate you.

 

[Wandrail]

...and Michael Jackson is just a topic that should remain untouched ...-shudders-

 

[ProphesizedDoom]

Actually Hitler DIDN'T support Xtianity, but the Roman Catholic Church supported him...

Also Conservatism never belonged in metal anyway. (National Socialism is extremely right-wing and conservative.) Metal, from the very beginning, has always been something that defies the masses and their opinions.

Also, politics do belong in music if that's what you feel needs to be. It's just you expressing yourself, i.e. Nevermore expressing their hatred for illogical extreme's on certain punishments (Inside Foru Walls). Talking about politics in music is perfectly fine, it's just in metal it was meant to be more liberal and becoming ultra-right-wing in a genre that typically is anti-conformity is just ridiculous.

Anyway, just figured I'd post my view.

 

[manuelgv]

I have no clue what people are talking about here

probably cause I don't listen to black metal

 

[ProphesizedDoom]

Originally posted by manuelgv
I have no clue what people are talking about here

probably cause I don't listen to black metal

Consider that a good thing, most tr00 kvlt BM is pure geighness anyway.

Anyway what they're talking about is the preaching of National Socialism (NAZIism) in a certain sub-genre of Black Metal...

 

[tara]

I like some NSBM. I could care less as to what the meaning is behind their songs and albums and just because someone may listen to it, that doesn't make them a raging racist asshole.
I mean, do you think people who listen to goregrind actually like having sex with dead bodies and eating guts? It's the same thing if you think about it.

 

[Birgith]

it should be fucking annihilated.. why bring politics into metal, when metal is a way of avoiding the political scene? sick.