Does black metal have to be Satanic?

[Sven Pakkanen]

Ever heard of power metal? Or any metal with epic content about good vs. evil and in the end good is the victor? I think a topic of adventure is quite positive.

 

[The Necrotizer]

Ever heard of power metal? Or any metal with epic content about good vs. evil and in the end good is the victor? I think a topic of adventure is quite positive.

Yes, but the topic of adventure is not as " emotionally loaded" as religion, and to be fair I'm not claiming that all metal must not be positive, I all said that I don't think a positive lyrical message works with the ambiance and moods created by black metal. Many genre's of metal don't create such dark atmospheres ( like power metal ) and positive vocals can be much more effective.

 

[theoden236]

I think black metal is about defying what the mainstream considers "normal", like clean production, traditional (verse-chorus-verse) song structure, and normal appearances (correct me if i'm wrong but that was another reason why they wore corpse paint). They formed this genre to "break the rules." So if it's a rule that BM has to be satanic, then all those un-black metal groups are just as much black metal as their satanic counterparts. I may be talking out of my ass though.

 

[-CC-]

Assuming you can't decipher the shrieks and screams by listening to it, do you put on a record and think to yourself "wow this is some great black metal" only to open the booklet and read the lyrics that are solely about depression and immediately dismiss any notion that it's black metal?

 

[Cythraul]

Yes, Black Metal has to be satanic and/or evil. If a band don't have satanic lyrics, then is NOT Black Metal, end of story.

So what about all the purported black metal bands that deal with pagan themes, fantasy, and various abstract themes, none of which are necessarily "evil"??? Are these bands not black metal simply by virtue of that fact? Why? How about an argument? And I mean a good argument, not something like "Euronymous said so."

 

[The Necrotizer]

Yes, Black Metal has to be satanic and/or evil. If a band don't have satanic lyrics, then is NOT Black Metal, end of story.

Not it doesn't ! heaps of black metal bands have solely pagan themes in their music

 

[Death Aflame]

So what about all the purported black metal bands that deal with pagan themes, fantasy, and various abstract themes, none of which are necessarily "evil"??? Are these bands not black metal simply by virtue of that fact? Why? How about an argument? And I mean a good argument, not something like "Euronymous said so."

Dude, this is GMD, why do you expect so much?

 

[Kulak]

I don't care about Euronymous, for me the lyrics define Black Metal, the same with some "Death Metal" bands, talking about love or girlfriends, what is that shit??

Love Kills man :Smokin:

 

[The Necrotizer]

Then those bands are not Black Metal, simple.

So Burzum is not Black metal? There are not really blatant consistent satanic themes running through VV's music...
And so what do you class a band like anaal nathrakh as then? Or what about a band who's sound and visual aesthetics are typical black metal but who's lyrical themes are not satanic, what do you classify that as? Define what you class as satanic? Also, how the fuck can you care so much about lyrical themes when so much of the vocals in black metal and death metal are undecipherable?
Do you not think there's an issue with letting the lyrical themes of a band having more say in the genre it's labeled with then the music? Especially in genre's where the lyrical themes are not immediately received or easily accessible by listening to the music.

 

[Cythraul]

for me the lyrics define Black Metal

Well, I figured as much. But now you need to explain (1) why black metal is defined exclusively by lyrical content, and (2) why it's defined by the particular lyrical content that you think it is, i.e., Satanism and evil.

Seriously, please explain how your idea of black metal applies to the rest of the universe outside of your own skull.

Then those bands are not Black Metal, simple.

No, it's not simple. It's prima facie a counterexample to your claim. Explain why it's not a counterexample.

 

[RavageTheKingdom]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotard_delusion


Who does that sound like from the black metal scene?

I always wondered what was wrong with him and there we have it. Probably Cotard's delusion and major depressive disorder.

 

[Kulak]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotard_delusion


Who does that sound like from the black metal scene?

I always wondered what was wrong with him and there we have it. Probably Cotard's delusion and major depressive disorder.

I like turtles

 

[RavageTheKingdom]

I like turtles

turtles are pretty cool.

 

[The Necrotizer]

No shit I have two turtles, they make pretty good pets.

 

[scytheavatar]

This is an extremely interesting but at the same time extremely pointless topic, if you asked many of the founding fathers of BM (to try and say one single person or band started the genre is ridiculous !) , you would get a plethora of opinions. People like Gaahl have stated that you shouldn't listen to his music, just for the music, the message is more important for him others are much more or solely focused on the sonic aspects of their bands. I can pretty much guarantee you that the proprietors of the second wave (the Norwegians) would say that christian BM or white metal as it's called is pretty much an oxymoron, but that doesn't imply that black metal has to be satanic.

Uh..... since when did Gorgoroth become significant enough a band for Gaahl to be one of the "founding fathers of BM"?

 

[Doomguy]

I don't care about Euronymous, for me the lyrics define Black Metal, the same with some "Death Metal" bands, talking about love or girlfriends, what is that shit??

Shut up.

If the classification of music is ultimately a result of the lyrical content (which is your logic), then it wouldn't really be a genre of 'music', would it? Last time I checked, genres tend to have a unique sound, not just lyrics. If Simon and Garfunkel wrote a song with satanic lyrics (as bizarre as it may sound), does that make it black metal?

Slayer have used satanic lyrics and imagery (although they aren't truly satanic) and their sound isn't even close to black metal.

A black metal group can sing about fucking K-Mart and it'll still be black metal if it fits the criteria in terms of sound (shrieked vocals, tremolo picking etc.).

 

[Sven Pakkanen]

Like I said before, it's all about meeting a majority of general traits of the genre. Nothing more. In other words I agree with the above.

EDIT: There is no specific required trait either.

 

[JayMo]

All I wanna know is what genre these "fake" black metal bands fall into if they aren't satanic. Is there a suitable genre we can move them into, or do those that subscribe to the narrow definition of black metal need to invent a new one for them?

 

[Sven Pakkanen]

All I wanna know is what genre these "fake" black metal bands fall into if they aren't satanic. Is there a suitable genre we can move them into, or do those that subscribe to the narrow definition of black metal need to invent a new one for them?

They are black metal. But, if one wants to be a snob about it, it's acceptable to simply call them extreme metal.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Like I said before, it's all about meeting a majority of general traits of the genre.

1). How are said traits defined?
2). What kind of majority? Anything over 50%? That seems nebulous and rather arbitrary