off topic - a serious question for you guys

[tedvanfrehley]

Hey all....I just want to let you all know what a great bunch of people you are. I don't have a lot of friends around (especially that are into metal) and I love my wife to death but sometimes I feel like I need some input from other people who kind of know me but won't be biased because they REALLY know me. So if you wouldn't mind playing "Dr. Phil" for a minute with me, please read on. Here goes:

My father is an alcoholic. Bigtime. He drank the better part of my youth and then in 1992 went to rehab and sobered up. All was well with the world. Then about 2 years ago he started going to a couple riverboat casinos in Indiana. "Just for fun". Needless to say (and this is the very SHORT version) he started drinking again, now heavily, he and my mom got a divorce, and he is now bankrupt and on the verge of losing his job and what little family he has left. He now calls me only when he's drunk or wants to try and get some money.

Here's my side. I am 30 years old and have a wife and kid of my own. I have to put my family first...but it's killing me. I guess I just wonder if any of you guys have dealt with anything like this? We have had some fights recently where I've told him that "Until you decide to get treatment again and quit drinkin'/gambling I don't want anything to do with you and you won't see your grandchild" but that doesn't seem to do anything. He just says that I'm judging him and that I should accept him for what he is. Other people have told me to not cut my father out of my life entirely, but to basically say that he can be part of our life as long as he never calls drunk or asks for money. I just don't know what to do and I'm driving my wife crazy talking about it all the time.

Sixxswine, I would appreciate your input on this since I know you've worked with addicts...what do you all think? Seriously? My heart is broken over all this.

There's a prayer that goes, "Grant me the serinity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can , and the wisdom to know the difference". Well, does that mean to ACCEPT that I cannot help him if he doesn't want to change and therefore I should cut him out of my life entirely or does that mean that I should ACCEPT him unconditionally as long as he repects my boundaries? (Doesn't call drunk or ask for money, etc...)

Please help, guys!!!!
Ted

 

[sixxswine]

Sixxswine, I would appreciate your input on this since I know you've worked with addicts...what do you all think? Seriously? My heart is broken over all this.
Please help, guys!!!!
Ted

Man, first of all, I'd like to start off by saying that I'm sorry that you're going through this. My heart goes out to you my brother & your family. I wouldn't enable your father by giving his dough for his alcohol & or gaming. As you have found out, gambling IS an addiction & you're likely seen the progression...
I think at this point, YOU might think he's reached bottom, but it doesn't sound like he think he has. He has more stuff to go through, I suppose.
I would say that the best thing you could offer is help in getting him into a local detox. Yes, they probably will house the lowest of the low, but it's a start in getting him clean, at least long enough for him to possibly see what he has done to himself & the family. I don't know what options he has as far as insurance, but you could contact a county clinic for help on the "ins" & "outs" of the system. There might be "indigent funds" where you could access a residential(or in house) program for him. If there is a gambling hotline in your area, you could also call them to access services. Each ticket or related gaming dollar has a percentage that goes to "treatment" of compulsive gambling. Look into this. Also, like with ANY addiction, anything less that 30 plus days isn't enough. My experinece has been that when someone enters a rehab, they don't begin to "clear" up until about 2-3 weeks into the program. I would personally say that 60-90 days would be preferred. And don't worry about not having access to your father. While porgrams do have a "blackout" period, they will after 2-3 weeks allow vistors & even at times later on, home visits or family visits. As far as you?
Well to gain insight into the mind of an addict, I would suggest you look into a local ALONON meeting or look it up on the internet, they will offer you places where you can find the answers to the questions you're looking for. Or possible go to the local library & check out a book. Brother, I feel for you, but I know you have a family to take care of & that should be your priority. Let dad you'll be around when he's ready to get the help he needs. Let me know what happens & if you need further help. I can access some info for you if need... One word of caution before I go. DO NOT ALLOW your father to stop drinking on his own, if he begins to go through the D.T.'s it could be fatal. Alcohol IS the ONLY drug that will kill someone, if they are going through the D.T.'s. If this happens call 911. That's why detox is the best starting place.
Email me if you need to get something sorted out.
There's this saying that folks trhat have struggled with addiction...
"An Addiction is like wrestling with a gorrilla, you're not done until the gorrilla says you're done..."
I'm pulling for you & your pop.

 

[tedvanfrehley]

I appreciate it. The only problem is that he's been to rehab already. About 10 years ago. His boss made him go or lose his job. His boss has also offered to pay for it if he will go again but my dad says he doesn't need it...that he's got his life "under control". Meanwhile he keeps drinking more, working less, and selling off everything he has to gamble. It's full on insanity. He's even been banned by the boats for his debts and his drunken conduct, but he somehow manages to keep going back.....

crazy....

 

[sixxswine]

I appreciate it. The only problem is that he's been to rehab already. About 10 years ago. His boss made him go or lose his job. His boss has also offered to pay for it if he will go again but my dad says he doesn't need it...that he's got his life "under control". Meanwhile he keeps drinking more, working less, and selling off everything he has to gamble. It's full on insanity. He's even been banned by the boats for his debts and his drunken conduct, but he somehow manages to keep going back.....

crazy....

I understand, but did you know that the aeverage "Chronic" addiction has an average of 7 admission into a rehab, before they "get it under control?"
Remember this & you're on the right track.
The definition for insanity is repeating the exact same behavior & expecting a different result...
If the boss is willing to pay again or if they have an Employee Assistance Program, it's time to up the heat....

 

[JonnyD]

Ted I am a Recoveriong Alcoholic ... I have no good advice to be Honest .... its been 5 and a Half years now ... but I know all it would take is just 1 drink and and you would never hear from me again ... your Dad has to WANT to quit for himself quitting for any other reason simply will not work...you cannot just close him out... that will only cause more problems ... anyways Good Luck My friend! .. I hope you r old man sees the light before its to late ....

 

[tedvanfrehley]

Thank you JD. I will take your advice and not cut him out entirely...Thank you Swine I will keep you posted, too.

 

[JonnyD]

Thank you JD. I will take your advice and not cut him out entirely...Thank you Swine I will keep you posted, too.

Your Welcome Man! anything I can do to help lemme know

 

[Wicked Child]

Unfortunately, i have no good advice to give out, since i've never gone through anything like this, except for alcohol problems in the family, but i don't really want to get into that right at this moment.

Anyway Ted, the best thing i can do for you is wish you the absolute very best. I'll be thinking of you, man. I really hope this can solved somehow and i wish i could do something for you.

 

[delize]

I wouldn't cut him off, but I would make the rules you feel is right for you and your family. He has destroyed his family...he has no right to distroy yours. And he will! I know you love him, so be tough, not weak. He has to want the personal help himself. I know this has to be really hard on you, but whatever you decide to do I would stick to it and not give in. I likewise wish you the best!

 

[baldyboy]

all i can do is echo the sentiments of the others ted,as i've no first hand experience of this kind of thing
setting those kinds of ground rules for your dad is good,as long as he sticks to them.i guess protecting your family is the most important thing tho.
you have my prayers and best wishes on this one ted,hope it works itself out ok.

 

[Wyvern]

Same as baldyboy. I was blessed with my father 'til the day he died, and I blessed with my mother.
I had a friend deep into alcohol, one day I left him choose between booze and our fiendship (we also work together and he was deepley troubled because of his Christian beliefs). Luckily he quit and never got into it again. I wish I can give you more ted, but I can't. I a firm believer in the 4th commandment (since I have broken all the others) and I do honor my parents. But as you pointed your own family comes first...

 

[zeppelin]

I havent spoken to my dad in a very long time, my grandfather passed away recently and I met my dad at the funeral, we talked and I somehow realised that it doesn't help if both of us are equally difficult towards each other, I think you should bite the bullet for as long as possible, don't give him reason to justify his behaviour, I hope things work out for you.

 

[Hawk]

My father was an alcoholic, besides that he was aggressive towards my mother and my brothers and me.

He almost killed my mother and me.

I tried to reason with him for years. After a while I decided that I was NOT going to let him ruin my life.

I cut all ties with him. And I never have been happier .

So here is my advice. you have a right to your own life and happiness. You also have the obligation towards your wife and child. To protect them from *anyone* who could be detrimental towards their happiness.

CUT ALL TIES WITH HIM

The fact that you were born in the same family does not hold any obligation over you. If he is a danger to your safety or the safety of your wife and kid leave him alone. Now some people would call this selfish. And I agree! There is nothing wrong with being selfish. Protecting yourself and those you love from a drunk is the most selfish thing you can do. It is also the most wise thing you can do.

Think about the declaration of independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
that among these are Life, Liberty and *the pursuit of Happiness.*

What is a greater value to you. You father or your own happiness and that of your wife and kid?

Ignore the bullshit about: "I should accept him for what he is." He is trying to get a moral blank check! Don't fall for that destructive line.

Leave him alone. If he promises to get to a clinic wait and see if he will. If he is clean you can meet him but keep him away from your direct family. Only after he has proved himself for a year or 2/3 your can resume normal relations with him.

Other wise; leave him alone. The longer you meet him, the more you will be dragged down by him.

I know this may sound harsh but I had more than 15 years personal experience with a total drunken POS.

I wish you, your wife and your kid the best. And I really hope your father sobers up. But I am not optimistic as long as he trying manipulate you with that "should accept him for what he is" BS!!

O; and one more thing, I hope the those who populate this forum will have more respect for me and my intelligence than to try and argue with me that being an alcoholic is a sickness

 

[tedvanfrehley]

Thank you ALL for the replies.

Hawk, your sentiment is pretty close to what I'm feeling...I really want to cut all ties with him because sometimes I feel it's just not worth it. He is not physically a threat to me or my family (yet...) but he causes a lot of worry, grief, and of course asks for money in his own creative ways....so it's more mentally and emotionally abusive than anything....

But what I did was tell him a couple weeks ago that until he got treatment i would never speak to him again and he'd never see his grandchild....well, I just felt like I ended up carrying around so much guilt that I was consumed by it so much that I was the most miserable and not him...it's an endless circle, I guess.

Here's what I did do for those of you who care...

I sent him a letter Monday saying that I would basically give him one more shot rather than cut him out entirely from my life. I told him that I wanted my daughter to grow up knowing him and all that but that if we were going to try and get along he HAD to do the following:
Don't call me if you're not 100% sober (he lives about an hour and a half away)
Don't call past baby's bedtime unless it's an emergency
Dont' EVER discuss money
I figure if he'll stick to that then we can at least agree to be civil to one another...

I think that whether I cut him out or try to keep contact he'll still drink and gamble...so I may as well try to have the peace of mind that at least I'm trying to do my best....

????

 

[tedvanfrehley]

Thanks Again To All Of You For Your Feedback!!!!!!!! It Is Good To Know There Are Folks Out There Like Yourselves.

 

[TRrEiTxIxRiE DTrash]

My dad had a problem with money & gambling a few years ago where he owed a lot of money and started lying to mum and using money she gave him to pay bills etc to gamble or use for his own debts he made and it ended up breaking up the family, he moved out 4 years ago now and I only see him about once or twice a year now. Also dad's brother (who I only met a few times) was a terrible alcoholic and by the time he was 50 he had a live-in nurse because he was urinating involuntarily and stuff, and he died earlier this year of alcohol poisoning in the same month that his own dad also died, so my grandma lost her husband & son in the same month. And dad's other brother has spent his whole life on the run from different situations & problems with debts, crime, etc. Luckily I've only met him about twice but nobody even in our family trusts him.... dad's side of the family has some pretty messed up problems!! However I haven't really experienced most of that myself (except the thing with dad himself obviously) because his family all lives in a different state and dad hasn't lived with us for 4 years, I live with mum and grew up around her side of the family.

Sorry I don't really have any advice for you though but just thought I'd share my story, there are others like yourself and people understand Hope your family & your dad can work it out dude! And don't feel bad about it yourself because there isn't much you can do, people can only get better if they want to get better otherwise they won't listen to anybody.

 

[TRrEiTxIxRiE DTrash]

Hawk, your sentiment is pretty close to what I'm feeling...I really want to cut all ties with him because sometimes I feel it's just not worth it. He is not physically a threat to me or my family (yet...) but he causes a lot of worry, grief, and of course asks for money in his own creative ways....so it's more mentally and emotionally abusive than anything....

Gene Simmons once said... it's like somebody drowning, they are gonna pull you down with them. It's not worth it sometimes...

 

[Bryant]

I know the serenity prayer very well myself. I am an alcoholic, but am functional or at least borderline functional. The thing about alcohlics are that each has their own "bottom" but it takes each person to bottom out before they will ever do anything about their problem. If you interfere with your father, all you will do is make it worse. What I am saying is that if you keep him from hitting "bottom" by helping him out financially etc. it will only prolong things and through no fault of his own, make things "seem" better for a while.
I am not saying that there aren't people that "relapse" and realize what they are doing before all is lost because it happens, but more often than not, serious alcoholics HAVE to hit bottom before they will take a total turn in their life. My suggestion is to allow him to lose everything. I realize at your father's age, he probably doesn't need to have to deal with "starting over" but you have to compare what he has to lose with what he has to gain.
If he has $40,000 in investments etc. sure you want to intervine before he knocks all of that out, but if he isn't going to lose too much by bottoming out, allow him too, even if it means him going to the streets. Once he loses everything, he might consider changing his life.
Sorry if I sound cruel. "Old habits die hard" and I lost things important to me due to drinking. I still struggle with it, but I hope that my "bottom" isn't low enough to keep me from losing too much when I go oveer the edge..


Bryant

 

[Hawk]

Thank you ALL for the replies.

Hawk, your sentiment is pretty close to what I'm feeling...I really want to cut all ties with him because sometimes I feel it's just not worth it. He is not physically a threat to me or my family (yet...) but he causes a lot of worry, grief, and of course asks for money in his own creative ways....so it's more mentally and emotionally abusive than anything....

Thanks glad I could be of some help.

My message was primarily directed at eliminating any form of guilt you might have felt. There's no need for it.

I know, thats easier said than done. but as long as you know that you are right in doing what you must do, it will make it a little easier.

I think you took a veru good decision. I wish you the best.

 

[Igor_Cavalera]

I think that whether I cut him out or try to keep contact he'll still drink and gamble...so I may as well try to have the peace of mind that at least I'm trying to do my best....

I think that's a good idea.
I might only be 16 but I haven't had contact with my father in 13 years, and it's a terrible thing to happen.
When he split up with my mother he refused to contact us and it's been really hard growing up without a father.
Losing contact with him completely would be a very hard thing for the both of you.
If he follows your rules, it should work out well

I wish you the best Ted.