Opeth Complexity and Exposure

[S4R]

Greetings my metal brethren. I have a question for you. Do you think the complexity of Opeth's music keeps them from the American mainstream? Also, would you want to see them enter the vileness of the American mainstream?

To answer the first question myself, yes. Most people don't truely listen to music. Most people today just look for the newest act that MTV says is cool. True musicianship is no longer desired. An artist makes a song to get to number 1, and thats it. I am grateful bands like Opeth are out there to feed my musical desires. (By the way I don't want to alienate simplistic music, some of the best music out there is quite simplistic.

To answer the latter, no. I personally don't think fans of bands such as Limp Bizkit and a majority of other "nu-metal" bands deserve to hear the power of bands such as Opeth, especially since they would more than likely be too lazy and/or ignorant to understand it.

Thats my standpoint, but, to each their own. Peace, brethren.

 

[S4R]

Well said Xtokalon.......and when i say brethren, i speak of all metal fans regardless of sex.

 

[Mr. Black]

to the first question i agree with your answer, to an extent...there are other factors at work however (e.g. fashion)...most importantly Opeth aren't american, which gives them a great disadvantage...for example Tool, although i'm not a big fan my self, play fairly complicated and intelligent music and still manage a relatively mainstream following

to the second question i disagree, you have no right to decide who should and should not be allowed to hear a bands music...if someone is 'too ignorant or lazy' to understand it then surely it doesn't matter if they hear it or not, they'll listen once, get bored after 8 minutes and find something else...it doesn't do you, the band, the music or anyone else any harm...on the other hand it would mean that more ppl would get to hear a truly exceptional band, and many i'm sure many would like the music very much...you don't need to know all the history of death/black metal in order to be able to apprechiate a band...personally i doubt they ever will become mainstream..few, if any, mainstream radio stations would be prepared to play 12 minute songs...(and i'd doubt opeth wouldn't start releashing radio edits or remixes)...so it isn't really an issue...but there are, i'm sure, kids out there listening to limp buscuit or papa r. right now who'd love bands like opeth if only they got the chance to hear them...not every1 has inet access and they are rarely mentioned in kerrang and such...everyone has to start somewhere...

maybe you should add a 3rd question:

how did you first hear opeth?

personally, i had them recommended to me by someone on irc, and d/led some mp3s...if it wasn't for that chance encounter i probably wouldn't of heard of them for another 5/6 months at least, when i next saw an article about them in a magazine...and i might not of read that were it not for the fact i'd already started listening them by then...

 

[S4R]

thanks for the great response Mr. Black, i think the bias i show comes from my personal disgust i have with American pop culture, you raise some valid points and i agree with your second paragraph, but good or bad i do have a bias against mainstream, maybe i can work on it, i take back the ignorant/lazy comment.

 

[S4R]

P.S. Opeth came into my life via a college roomate

 

[Lina]

No, don't take the ignorant/lazy comment back!

People who would truly appreciate Opeth *wouldn't* appreciate PapaRoach (hopefully). I don't think Raziel was saying that if you haven't heard of Opeth at this point, that you're shit. He was just saying that he doesn't want PapaRoach fans to jump onto Opeth as a new trend.

So Mr. Black, obviously, we all had to be exposed to Opeth somehow -- but that doesn't mean that we would listen to its polar opposite (PapaRoach, to name just one) in the meantime. Before getting into Opeth, I already KNEW that nu-metal was crap, so I listened to the less-offensive (musically) mainstream bands instead.

I think Raziel's point is that people who, right now, think that nu-metal is really good music obviously aren't deep and musical enough to really get Opeth. Well, at least that's my point.

 

[Mr. Black]

is papa roach really that bad?, i can't say i've ever heard any (part from one song which played on mtv a few times)...i've heard a bit to much linkin park and limp biscuit tho and it is quite poor i agree...but ppls musically tastes change...two years ago i didn't listen any metal at all, i mostly listened to choral music like Carl Orff, Durufle, Faure and such...if someone listens to papa roach it doesn't mean that is all they'll ever listen to or enjoy (esp. as most ppl who do are only 14 or so, and so should forgiven a few bad decisions) ...people grow up, there musical tastes mature, and most will discover better bands or, if its just a trend, just walk away...it only takes a young metal fan to read an interview with one of the better nu-metal bands (e.g. slipknot or static X) for them to introduced to the bands that they claim as influences (bands like ministry or death...) and soon they'll see thats there is a our world of much better music out there, and never touch limpy again... the majority of ppl in this world are capable of liking opeth, thats not to say they WILL like it, but they just need to be given the chance...i don't think you ever have to worry about opeth appearing of top of the pops or anything...i agree that most ppl wouldn't like papa roach AND opeth, but that shouldn't preclude them liking papa roach THEN opeth...one paparoach album does not an idiot make, wearing a red baseball cap backwards on the otherhand....

 

[S4R]

Lina I should have spelled out what i was saying better, thanks for completing what I was saying. I think if Opeth became a trend to people it would be a shame, those ppl would not see the true beauty of the music.

 

[MetalManCPA]

I don't think the majority of rock music listeners (metal in particular) will ever be ready for bands such as Opeth, or most other really good metal bands.

If American mainstream music embraced Opeth as they are, I'd love to see it. But if Opeth ever did what others say in order to "make it", that would be a travesty.

 

[Soul Forlorn]

Music in America is just how it's been for the last 20 years or so. Most Americans listen to whatever they're listening to simply because it is popular. They listen to it to fit in with the crowd or to gain an image. Music that is popular here very rarely ever remains popular for more than a period of around 5 years or so. I have yet to see anything remotely considered popular to be "complex music". Even bands that do have some more complex material don't get "popular" because of those songs. Bands here get popular because of mainly their image. Songs that are popular are fairly simple and catchy. I don't forsee this aspect of music in America changing in the near future. If for some reason Opeth ever did become popular here (which I don't think will ever happen), their music would never be truly understood and appreciated by the masses and I think as a result their image would suffer. I think Tool is a perfect example of this. The majority of Americans are not true music lovers. It takes a true music lover to appreciate and enjoy complex music.

 

[hibernal_dream]

I doubt thats the only reason: the mainstream listens to what ever they enjoy listening to. Image probably plays a part, but what does that have to do with the music?

It doesn't take a true music lover to enjoy complex music; that takes a good brain, and its debatable how much they actually enjoy it. I could use the same argument and say that people listen to Opeth simply because its complex.

By the way, is anyone familiar with Burzum "Hildskjalf" ?
Man, that CD is amazing, i put it on at moderate volume, lie on the couch, and in a few minutes i fall into a deep trance. Seriously, Its like some hypnotism CD. And when i "wake up" i'm all refreshed and my mind is really relaxed. And the thing is, the music is really boring and repetitive as well, you just have to be in the right state of mind to get something out of it. So there are different levels of "enjoyment".

 

[Soul Forlorn]

the mainstream listens to what ever they enjoy listening to. Image probably plays a part, but what does that have to do with the music?

They might/might not enjoy listening to it. But that's not the main reason they're listening to it and that's not what led them to listen to it in the first place. What led them to listen to it is that all of a sudden it's "cool" to listen to it. Everybody else listens to it, you're not cool if you don't like it sort of thing. I've met tons of people who only listen to what is trendy at the time. Then a couple years later they're not listening to it any more. So then I say "Well, I thought you liked that, why don't you listen to it anymore?" "Oh, that's old!" The point being that the main reason that they're listening to it is because it's trendy. Sure, if nobody really enjoyed the content of the music it would have never become popular in the first place but that really doesn't matter since as soon as it becomes commonplace to say "that's old" it's not going to be popular anymore. You could take almost every major boy band, teenie bopper girl, even a lot of rap and country artists to illustrate this point.

Image probably plays a part, but what does that have to do with the music?

Image has absolutely nothing to do with the music. That's the whole thing about how screwed up mainstream music is in America!

It doesn't take a true music lover to enjoy complex music; that takes a good brain, and its debatable how much they actually enjoy it.

It does take a good brain to truly ENJOY complex music. But in my experience I've never met anyone who truly enjoys complex music that isn't a true music lover. I'm not saying that everyone who is a true music lover is going to be a fan of complex music either.

I could use the same argument and say that people listen to Opeth simply because its complex.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who listen to Opeth simply because it's complex, but are they really enjoying it?

 

[Demonspell]

Opeth's complexity certainly prevents greater exposure...and more power to them, I have always contended that the mainstream will never be able to fully comprehend both metal and avant-garde music. Their legacy shall be one of being the band to most succesfully integrate progressive influences into extreme metal and d it with the most emotional resonance. That is how I want Opeth to be remembered.

 

[hibernal_dream]

They might/might not enjoy listening to it. But that's not the main reason they're listening to it and that's not what led them to listen to it in the first place. What led them to listen to it is that all of a sudden it's "cool" to listen to it. Everybody else listens to it, you're not cool if you don't like it sort of thing. I've met tons of people who only listen to what is trendy at the time. Then a couple years later they're not listening to it any more. So then I say "Well, I thought you liked that, why don't you listen to it anymore?" "Oh, that's old!" The point being that the main reason that they're listening to it is because it's trendy. Sure, if nobody really enjoyed the content of the music it would have never become popular in the first place but that really doesn't matter since as soon as it becomes commonplace to say "that's old" it's not going to be popular anymore.

I've always been puzzled by this kind of comment. Question: why do you think new music is made? Why don't bands just create one song and everyone listens to that for the rest of their lives?
Why do people post new posts on this forum? Why can't we just read the same post over and over again?

Songs get boring after a while. I can only listen to a song a certain amount of times before it gets boring. I lost interest in BWP after about 2 months. So was I only listening to it because i'm trendy? I'm one of those people who say "its too old", and i can't really explain why... new music is fresh and exciting, gives you a new perspective to life.

Image has absolutely nothing to do with the music. That's the whole thing about how screwed up mainstream music is in America!

But this works both ways. I know many metal fans who do not like hip hop or rock because of the artist's image or attitude.

I don't see mainstream music as "music", more as theatrics. Take opera, for example. You need to see the characters to understand the whole thing, what their singing about, and why. Theres a whole story behind it. Same thing with rap music. THe image of ganstas living their life in a ghetto, dealing drugs, on the run from the cops all the time, makes the music far more appealing. Thats why music videos are made. So you can't really say that connecting image with music is a bad thing, its just a different level of entertainment.

Heh. Why is it that i'm always debating with you, Soul Forlorn? Oh well, i love arguments... Keep posting!!

 

[Russell]

Originally posted by Lina
No, don't take the ignorant/lazy comment back!
People who would truly appreciate Opeth *wouldn't* appreciate PapaRoach (hopefully).

I appreciate Papa Roach. I don't like them, but in my mind thats different from appreciating them. And should sum1 who listens to music not appreciate ne other type of music even if it is nu metal or sumthing?

 

[Russell]

Originally posted by Soul Forlorn
Image has absolutely nothing to do with the music. That's the whole thing about how screwed up mainstream music is in America!

I disagree. I think it shouldn't, but thats not how it works I think many people listen to music as part f an image. Like with the whole "rock chick" thing/ look we've got going at the mo, there are all these 13 year old girls running around listening to Slipknot or Papa Roach, not because they like the music, but cos they're "rock chick". I think ultimately, for many people, music is inherently linked with image and has nothing to do with the pleasure that can be gained from listening to it