Opeth Discussion

[no country for old wainds]

GoD (does he still post here under a different moniker?)

hes v.v.v.v.v

 

[mutantllama]

I thought he was metalages

 

[Lateralus14]

Listen to it ten times, I guarantee you'll think different. No one gets into an Opeth album after one listen, and it's impossible to make a valid statement about an Opeth album after just one listen, which I think too many people try to do.

QFT. And not only do too many people try to make judgments after one listen, but most of those people go into said one listen with a closed mind because Opeth is more popular or more gay or w/e. Some albums I really love I didn't get into until I really wanted to like them enough to dedicate many listens and actually pay attention. Opeth's Orchid or DsO's Fas both took me like 20 listens each (well, I always liked the lighter parts of Fas but I never had a clue what was going on under loud drumming until I dedicated several listens with headphones on high and nothing else on my mind)

 

[Lateralus14]

Also its kinda funny to me how everyone here thinks Opeth's first albums (i.e. Morningrise) are their best and yet their main complaints about the band are the disjointed songs (which are most abundant on Morningrise/Orchid)

 

[no country for old wainds]

^now THAT i agree with

here's my post from that other thread btw, screw the recommendation forum

the quality of a 'part' depends primarily on its relationship to the whole. throw together a riff from war pigs, a riff from master of puppets, a riff from the trooper and a riff from transilvanian hunger and you'll get a bad song by nearly anybody's standards. but with less obvious stuff like opeth, it becomes less and less possible to like these things in isolation with experience, because you're more and more aware of overall flow, momentum, direction, the building of tension and release, internal logic; the things which constitute the overall mood. i mean i still like some opeth riffs that don't have any relationship to the stuff around them, but it's like reading a well written poetic monologue shoved in the middle of a goosebumps book - it's too jarring and purposeless to be genuinely powerful in that context.

for the record i'm an ex-opeth fanboy so i know what it's like to love this band and to think their every move is gold. but then i also used to think the offspring were the deepest band in existence... it's one of those things that i genuinely believe, based on my own experiences, people move away from as they naturally develop a critical ear.

 

[skeptik]

I think that the disjointed songwriting argument against Opeth is one that is overstated, and this is coming from somebody who doesn't particularly care for the band.

 

[CF87]

I refuse to let music turn me into an asshole. I just wanted to share that with everyone.

 

[Episteme]

hes v.v.v.v.v

Is he really? I thought GoD was from the UK, I know v^5 used to post during that time as well under a different moniker as well.

My favourite album by Opeth is Morningrise, because even though it seems 'disjointed'. The riffs, melodies and clean parts didn't seem forced and somehow aided in maintaining the atmosphere it invoked. I think alot of their music post-Morningrise contained traces of cheesiness and formulaic songwriting which seemed a little forced(i.e time to put a clean part in, must switch to a dissonant riff here, time to put a distorted minor progression and sing cleanly over it), not 'disjointed'.

I still like their stuff all the way up to Damnation (except for Deliverance which I thought was meh) I just never got into Ghost Reveries and Watershed either.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Is he really? I thought GoD was from the UK, I know v^5 used to post during that time as well under a different moniker as well.

lol

 

[Episteme]

Is someone pulling my leg here. o_o. There was a period of time when I didn't visit the forums for a year or two, so excuse my confusion.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Yes, but I'm not telling.

 

[Episteme]

Now that's just mean.

 

[no country for old wainds]

I think alot of their music post-Morningrise contained traces of cheesiness and formulaic songwriting which seemed a little forced(i.e time to put a clean part in, must switch to a dissonant riff here, time to put a distorted minor progression and sing cleanly over it), not 'disjointed'.

that's how i feel about still life in particular, a lot of the melodies seem contrived and self-conscious, there's nothing natural about that album even in the individual parts, let alone the overall structure. i hear you, but i do think for the most part the first two (and especially orchid) are just TOO disjointed. there are some good sections where they do build and hit these cool ass climaxes, but sometimes they just have no interest in momentum (not just in terms of disjointedness but totally superfluous repetition - i dno, maybe the repetition is ok when the bits being repeated are good enough..), it's distracting and deflating. both have a few genuinely godawful ideas scattered around them as well which doesn't help, and morningrise can be a bit cloyingly sentimental.

i still kind of like my arms your hearse, the theme is a bit goofy but there's the odd extended section that's pretty good, and not many distracting parts. blackwater park has some good extended sections too, i think it gets undeserved stick from some corners (prob 'cause it's overly proggy), but it also goes to shit in a big way every so often. i don't think deliverance is too bad, or damnation, but the last two are pretty worthless.

I refuse to let music turn me into an asshole. I just wanted to share that with everyone.

 

[Episteme]

there are some good sections where they do build and hit these cool ass climaxes, but sometimes they just have no interest in momentum (not just in terms of disjointedness but totally superfluous repetition - i dno, maybe the repetition is ok when the bits being repeated are good enough..), it's distracting and deflating. both have a few genuinely godawful ideas scattered around them as well which doesn't help, and morningrise can be a bit cloyingly sentimental.

I know exactly what you mean, there are parts which are repeated far too often(like say about 8 times, when all that's needed is about 2 or perhaps 4), this could make the songs alot shorter and probably more interesting to listen to. I also felt that it seemed like Akerfeldt had not learnt how to switch between transitioning riffs properly and instead of exiting out of it half way or 75% of the way where it would be okay to do so, he would wait until the end of it. This makes the disjointedness a little more apparent because of the start-stop nature, especially if he's about to transpose to another key or minor to major vice versa. This got better with the newer albums, but transitions would be albeit too predictable with the next riff being something he's done over and over again.

As much as I dislike the new albums, I have to say Akerfeldt's vocals both clean and distorted have come a long way and have vastly improved over the years.

 

[METALDUDE]

Haven't fully gotten into these guys yet,I dunno. Let's say I never bought anything but have heard quite a bit. Thought I would add something since I was reading through this.

I like me some death metal,prog and artsy shit...maybe I need to listen closer to Opeth one day. I always keep an open mind.

Just never struck me when friends brought it by..I have a large collection too,about 4,500..maybe I should toss one in the shelves one day. Any suggestions or are my first instincts correct and stay away.

 

[Lateralus14]

After reading all of this, I guess the reason I can still enjoy Opeth despite all of these "flaws" is that I just subconsciously have a different mindset when I'm listening to them. When those massive repetition sections come in (Deliverance, Harlequin Forest, Blackwater Park, Moonlapse Vertigo, etc. etc.), I'm just completely focused on enjoying that part rather than enjoying its role in the song. Similarly, with their disjointed songs, I'm not just worshipping the songwriting skills but am just enjoying each individual part as it comes. And since we've all agreed Opeth have some nice individual parts and a good vocalist and that most people's main problem with them is their overall songwriting, then I guess they're a pretty damn good band to people that are able to look past the bad songwriting in favor of great individual parts. So yea, when I say "[Opeth song] is such an awesome song!" I'm really saying "[Opeth song] is full of several somewhat irrelevant parts that are all pleasing to my ears!" so you music professors should feel no need to tell me once again about Opeth's subpar SONGwriting - I know...I just like the "part"writing and am able to completely ignore the songwriting for some reason because of my mindset when I'm listening.

Opeth also has more beauty than 99.9% of the bands discussed here imo so cool deal for me. My apologies if enjoying "beauty" makes me an immense fag.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I have to say, the Opeth forum was full of retards. I'm kinda glad to see it wiped away, even if it doesn't really concern me at all.

Opeth needs to stop making music.

Do you like any prog metal?

 

[Space Butler]

METALDUDE, I strongly recommend getting Deliverance and Damnation. These are their hardest and softest albums, and, IMO, their best. They were both recorded at the same time and their song writing was at it's peak with these two. As others stated, don't give them a listen or two and decide they are no good. It will take you a while to get into, but you will be glad you had patience in the long run.

 

[byrne]

opeth is enjoyable in small doses. i seldom listen to them, but i get a kick out of it every now and then.

 

[Belligerent]

I bought Blackwater Park after several friends suggested I check them out and I listened to it once and found it boring and somewhat cheesy.

Explain the cheesy part, i'm not understanding this. I can understand one calling them boring but cheese? um no.